this is Sarah the carb-sensitive / Alexy the old poster.

Ok. I took my second day of zone fish oil. Previously I was on another, very reputable kind of fish oil, which is processed differently, and I was on that fish oil for a long time. I took 15 grams of fish oil from that different brand. I noticed, by the way, a lot of good things happening since I went back on the zone diet .. my nails had became much more thin and fragile when I went off fish oil and the zone diet, for example; but the fish oil and the diet thickened them over the months, the change was quite obvious and visible. I had increased energy too. More mentally alert, more able to do things.

Ok. I switched to the zone fish oil hoping it'll help me with my unusually strong allergy reactions.

I switched from 15 grams of the other fish oil to 10 grams of this fish oil--the zone fish oil.

Ok. I was up all night long, I had breakfast at 5 a.m. after being awake all night long (due to my post nasal drip which blocks my breathing). I went back to sleep and actually could sleep for 3.5 hours I think it was. I woke up. Went to the bathroom. (Graphic stuff coming here.)

I pooped and it sort of came out a bit fast in me, almost as if I'm veering into the runs, but the stools were reasonably formed. They sank though, they normally sink, and the rare time they float is when I take GLA. I don't take GLA because ... it's hard to know how much I need. I'm looking for spirulina pills though.

So the stools looked normal relatively speaking for someone like me.

However there were a lot of orange oily blobs floating on top. It stained the toliet.

(Graphic part finished!)

So ... what am I to think, and how do I handle this from now on? If I lost some of the fish oil, it's an expensive waste not having it being absorbed into my own body to help me with my severe allergies.

Sarah/Alexy who will set up her signature ... thanks John for explaining ... just that I'm severely sleep deprived and finding it much harder to focus on technical stuff right now.

Sarah the carb-sensitive and also Alexy the old Zone poster

GRAPHIC PART HERE.

I pooped again just now. Not a big poop. And it's definitely the runs--no formed stools.

And again the orange oily blobs that stain the toilet. I had to scrub the toilet after both times today.

What does this mean? What do I do?

I wasn't having any of these things happening with the other fish oil, which does work for a lot of things, but I am trying the zone fish oil again, now that I'm pretty much zoned (meaning, as zoned as one can get when one can't sleep and therefore elevated cortisol levels ruin things).

The intention is to get my severe allergies under control so I stop reacting to all kinds of things. I'm also undergoing treatments--NAET if any of you have heard of it.

Sarah/Alexy

By the way, I do read other people's posts responding to me, but I have limited ability to concentrate and right now I need to focus on getting my allergies under control, but please know that I do read ALL of these responses to me, even if I don't respond in return right now!!!

You should lower your dosage and work slowly up. No sure what you were taking before for Fish Oil. But Dr Seras is Ultra refined and High Potency.

See how you do starting with Four capsules.. Then slowly increase.

Alexy,

I would stop taking Omega RX for a few days to allow your EPA levels drop a little (it takes a few days). In the meantime order some Sea Health Plus. Then in several days begin Omega Rx again at the lower dose Tech suggested taken together with 1 capful of Sea Health Plus. Sea Health Plus will helps with the absorption of Omega Rx. Stay at 4 capsules Omega Rx plus one capful of Sea Health Plus for a week or so and then gradually work up to a higher dose over several weeks. As you increase your omega Rx dose also increase you Sea Health Plus accordingly (1 capful of Sea Health Plus for every 4 capsules Omega Rx). I know it sounds like sounds like a long process, but the results will be worth it. Hang in there. You're doing great!

Ok. For now, what is "a few days" or "several days"? I interpret " a few days" as being more than a week, and "several days" as two-three days.

I can't afford to pay for more stuff right now. Is there another way to increase the absorption of Omega Rx?

I'm also concerned that my allergies will come back and get bad again when I go off the Omega Rx. I stopped having strong allergic reactions the second day of taking this FO. I had been improving slowly anyway, but I slipped right into the normal non-allergic experience the second day of this FO.

Can someone explain what exactly is happening, why my body isn't absorbing all of the fish oil? What exactly is going on?

Thanks for yoru help, Sue and Tech support!

Sarah

Go at least 3 days without it.

I don't know all the details of the physiology of it, but this (fish oil leakage) happens to some people at first and SHP usually resolves it.

The waiting is to allow some EPA to dissipate from your system. It has a long half-life so it takes a few days for levels to go down a bit. Most likely the potency of Omega Rx was much stronger that that fish oil you were previously taking, which is the reason we suggested from the start to go slow with Omega and gradually work up to the higher dose.

Updating you guys .... so I can get more help from you ...

((WARNING: Mildly graphic. Not for the sensitive of stomach.)

I went off the zone fish oil, but went back to it quickly because of my anxiety over my allergies at the time. That was over a week ago. I don't have any apparent serious allergies at this point, thankfully, but I have congestion, and I do not know why I have congestion. Anyway.

I went to 6 capsules of zone fish oil. It was ok at 6 capsules. I increased, over time, to 9, then 12. It was ok. No bad fish oil smells in the bathroom. LOL. Well, with 12 capsules (and I started topping off at that point with another fish oil to make 10-12.5 grams of fish oil overall), I DID have the bad fish oil smell but onlly in the bathroom, and there were no obvious fish oil leakages in the toliet. won't go into details. Then today I increased to 16 capsules. I had been increasing my fermented cabbage (for probiotics) at the same time, and eating pistactics (which Cranberrycat observed have some probiotic action too). I woke up congested, went to bathroom, and the stools had no form to it. I was having "the runs." I had been drinking apple vinegar cider all day long (dilluted); that's the Bragg one. The cider is to keep the phelgm down. And to help with congestion. My stomach was upset for a while. I don;'t think the upset stomach was due to the fish oil though.

So now I'm going down to 12 capsules for a few more days and then increase again. I will top off with another fish oil to make 10-12.5 grams / day to help with my allergies.

Anyway, so that's where I am now ... I was in a hurry to "get there," and pushing the limits with respect to the fish oil, and I found my limitation today I think ... although I must comment, there was no obvious fish oil leakage in the toilet, unlike the 2nd day of fish oil that I posted about. I mean, no large blobs of orange oily fish oil floating on the surface. but the smell was and is BAD. I do not know how to get rid of the smell. Yuck.

Worth the bad smell to get rid of allergies, and ... the congestion??? The congestion is much softer now though ... but I still wake up struggling to breath, but it's a lot better than it was. Used to be that I would jerk from the sudden stopping of breathing every few minutes, it was far more dramatic. I have gone as far as 3 nights and 3 days with absolutely NO sleep in either the nighttime or daytime. The post nasal drip is a lot softer, a lot more liquidy.

I do not understand, I will admit, why I still have the PND when I have removed soy, wheat, dairy, and caffeine from my diet.

Alexy

I would suggest no fish oil for 2 days then go back to the dose that was working well and stay there for a month. I think you really need the AA/EPA test, wish it were easier for you to get it. Will be interesting to see what the other veterans have to say.

I wish I could give you more advice, but I might risk breaking a forum rule. Does your new doctor have an opinion on the validity of taking fish oil and doing the testing?

Alexy, it's been barely a week and a half, 10 days or so, since I last explained what to try (check my post below). That isn't enough time to have stopped and gradually increase to the point you're at now. In other words you're moving too quickly. At the same time, you're changing other things like the cabbage and vinegar, and you are combining brands of fish oil. That makes it more difficult to determine the exact cause of the problem. Try rereading my post from July 17 and following those instructions again starting today. You might even want to go one week with out fish oil before you begin at the lower dose. Add the Sea Health Plus and stick with Omega RX only for now. Take the starting dose for one week before making any changes. Then increase by four capsules for one more week before making any changes. If that goes well and you want to increase again, try gradually increasing by a couple capsules, trying each increase for at least one week before Adding more. One more tip, after piecing together the info you've posted about yourself here over the years, I don't think that eating cabbage is a good idea for you.

I did read all of your posts when you answered, just low in energy right now.

Will get back to you all.

Why cabbage not a good idea?

I understand how you must be feeling frustrated and you just want to get moving with some results. I'm the same, I wish results were more immediate. Hang in there!

[quote]
Posted By Sarah on 28 Jul 2012 08:10 PM

Why cabbage not a good idea?
[/quote]


A few years ago we discussed Dr. Sears comments regarding a question asked about blood type and avoiding certain foods (re the work of Peter D'Adamo, "Eat Right 4 Your Type"). Dr. Sears had replied it is was probably good to take into account which foods to avoid. You had revealed your blood type to me. Cabbage and cauliflower were two foods that would be recommended for people with you blood type to avoid. Fast forward to now. You are not making the progress you would like to see. You are eating cabbage. I'd avoid it at least until your condition has shown marked improvement (I mean avoid it for weeks to months, not just for a few days). At that point, if you really want to eat it, I would introduce it in small amounts over time to see how it goes.

Hi Sue, Thanks for this information. I don't have the energy at this point to reread the book, I do recall I did read the book at one time and I found the zone science far more convincing, because of its depth and breadth.

That said, I am now avoiding cabbage and cauliflower, just in case ...

Wow, weeks to months, huh? That's a lot.

I just took another look at the book online. Well, I will reread it again ... I'm willing to try anything ...

Alexy

Thanks for your support, Sue. Yes, what you said is exactly how I feel.

It's the fourth day without any fish oil at all. I also went off my new probiotics because so many things were thrown into the mix, and I know with probiotics, I get the same results--stools with no form, in other words. So that confuses everything.

And I still have stools with no forms. Or I'm now having stools that LOOK like they have form, but don't in reality, if you get my meaning.

So, I'm reviewing all of your information yet again today ... I still struggle with congestion, but, it's a lot softer, although I have developed a tendency to get scared at nighttime, so I am making my congestion worse (obviously) at this point in time by being tense--tense stomach and chest and throat when I have reflux that responds with phlegm. I never used to be scared about sleeping like this. I wasn't the greatest sleeper in the world, no, but I never paniced about it. Now, after going as far as 3 nights and 3 days without any sleep because every time I tried to go to sleep, after a few minutes, the drip would consolidates and there would be a sudden, abrupt, stopping of breathing, and I'd jerk awake. So that would go on all night long, every 5-7 minutes. I could not get any sleep at all no matter what I did. It was awful.

Then there are the tics--which I think are caused by severe lack of sleep. I don't normally have them, or didn't in the past year. They jerked me awake at one point too. But I'm getting 600 mg magnesium at nighttime, to help me with this.

Nobody is able to give me an explanation of why this happens to me when it doesn't happen to other people.

But it hasn't come back. My congestion is far softer, far more liquidly, at this point. Not saying I don't have breath stopping, I do, sometimes, and I wake up if I'm sleeping, but

And my allergies haven't come back in an overt form (e.g., I haven't started reacting to things again--if I'm reacting, it's not obvious to me).

I also went off my anti-reflux med--Tecta--after reading an article--a very good one--that my naturopathic doctor sent me. But I went back on it because I need the temporary suppression of symptoms while I'm rebuilding my health ...

A lot of informatin here, lol. And part of me wonder if I already mentioned some of it? ????

Alexy

"Add the Sea Health Plus and stick with Omega RX only for now."

Is there another way to increase absorption of fish oil than Sea Health Plus?

I am not working due to various reasons.

Alexy

"I wish I could give you more advice, but I might risk breaking a forum rule. Does your new doctor have an opinion on the validity of taking fish oil and doing the testing?"

I didn't ask my new naturopathic doctor ... I'm seeing her again, in a couple of weeks I think.

I can't tell WHY I'm having stools that are not formed. I was desperate and yes, it does confuse things when I try different things. Like probiotics.

By the way, what you said about pistactics being probiotics. I was eating a lot of pistactics too and I have since quit because I think it's contributing to the whole thing ...

But I feel ok without the fish oil, but I'm tempted to try again tomorrow ...

Alexy

Cranberrycat ... what email address did I give you so we could chat offline about other things?

I lost my email addy that I gave you ... it was a Gmail one.

Alexy

I am wondering, now, if probiotics and the zone fish oil plus the zone diet (which I'm still following very strictly), do the same thing in improving the bacterial count in the stomach?

In other words. If the zone diet and zone fish oil is doing, in part, the same thing as probiotics. then I could let go of probiotics for a while until I stabilize on zone fish oil first, then add probiotics later on?

I do know a strong stomach--a lot of good bacteria--is absolutely crucial to health.

And, obviously, I could do the reverse--and it would be a LOT cheaper to do it that way. LOL. But the zone diet plus zone fish oil does a lot more than re-balance the stomach, soo ...

Alexy

Sarah,

I'd advise to either stick with the fish oil plan I suggested, or together with your doctor come up with an alternate plan and stick to that. You feel ok without it right now because it has a long half life (measured in days not hours). With only several days of no fish oil, not enough of it has dissipated from your system yet for you to notice a difference.

Re the stool qn, without going to the point of TMI, watery means water (you will know) "looks like " form means there is form. It would be to you benefit to keep in close contact with your doctor for advice as you try to sort all of this out.

Re the SHP qn, I don't know of another way to increase the absorption of Omega RX.

Thanks for this. I'm perplexed as to what to do next. And I'm not seeing my naturopathic doctor until Aug 13th, so I need to do something in the meantime.

Ok. Things have changed in the past 4 days, so that it doesn't look watery at first glance. And, uh, when I started having form again, the form dissolves immediately. I hope that's not TMI ...

Ok, thanks for all this, Sue. It does sound like, for sure, it's an overproduction of eicosanoids here, so I can wait until my stools start forming again, then start at 4 capsules. And continue with the fermented cabbage since I've been doing it for weeks now and it wasn't an issue. I will stay off the new probiotics though until I see my naturopathic doctor.

Thanks for letting me know you don't know another way to increase the absorption of Omega RX than SHP.

Does anyone know if the zone diet and fish oil does the same for the stomach--increase healthy bacteria there--as probiotics???

Alexy

You're welcome. If you're asking when to begin taking Omega Rx again, my advice is to follow the fish oil plan we discussed earlier in this thread, which begins with no Omega RX for one week, then begin back with 4 capsules taken together with SHP, etc. As I said, I'd stop eating cabbage for now.

Again, it's best to call you doctor when you have symptoms related to health issues. We are not doctors here.

Sarah/Alexy,

I think that you are so overwhelmed, and you have advice coming from all directions. When this happens to me, I usually just go back to the basics and start from there. You know the Zone and the basics. Put your efforts into choosing zone-favorable foods and don't worry about the probiotics and all of this other stuff. Stick with the plan re the fish oil, and if it starts to backfire, then back off of it. Again, I really think that in your case, the AA/EPA testing would be quite valuable, but not sure how you can go about that right now.

I can't give you my email here (forum rule), sorry!

I don't know if the Zone and fish oil have a probiotic effect, but maybe you could submit that question on "Ask Dr. Sears". Just as added info (hoping this does not get too graphic), I started taking probiotics when I was on the antibiotics for my dog bite, as I started having very loose stools. I think that the probiotics actually firmed me up too much, and I had to stop taking them due to the constipation that I felt. So, eating 1/2 cup plain yogurt each day seemed to be enough probiotics for me. You can google search foods high in probiotics and you can find other foods that

I AM overwhelmed.

I DO have advice coming at me from all directions.

Good idea re: Ask Dr. Sears.

Probiotics firmed your stools up? They do the opposite for me! I get the runs, although the runs aren't the same as ... graphic details again ... the unformed stools.

Can find other foods that what?

LOL

Bless you and Sue for being here for me during this time ...

Alexy