I feel nice and full at the end of my meals but I often get a feeling of hunger or emptiness about 90 minutes after a meal. I'm not hungry enough to eat anything and it passes within several minutes but it makes me wonder if I'm not in the Zone. I have not been able to discern any relationship between a particular meal and the hunger effect. Sometimes I'll get it and sometimes I won't after the identical meal

Page 47 of "Mastering the Zone" talks about "significant" hunger four hours after eating. (My hunger is not what you'd call "significant'.) Dr. Sears explains that if the hunger includes poor mental focus then it is from too many carbs (high insulin). If it comes with good mental focus it is from too few carbs (low insulin). Mine is always the good-mental-focus kind so I added carbs to my meals but that didn't change anything. I'm now eating 4P, 5C and 12F blocks per meal. (The extra fat is because I am bordering on being too skinny and I need it to keep my weight up.)

I average 2.5 blocks of vegetables and 2.5 blocks of fruit per meal.

The vegetable blocks are usually
-tomato paste
-onions
-tomatoes
-I'll also have cucumber, spinach or lettuce but not enough to make up a whole block
-hummus or other bean
-40g barley or 1/3 cup steel cut oats

You can see that I'm going for low volume vegetables because too much fiber kind of bothers me.

I mostly eat berries for the fruit blocks and sometimes cherries, apple, applesauce, orange, etc.

I've been on the Zone Diet about 6 weeks. My recent diet history is 2 years of zero carb (fatty meat only) and 1 year of raw vegan (low carb / high fat). I run 3 miles a day and do weights 3 times a week.

I'm wondering if I should add more fat. Or maybe this is normal ??? I guess a good test would be to have 2 Zone Bars plus my extra fat for a few meals and see if the hunger comes.

Larry,

I have FOREVER had conflicting signs/symptoms regarding hunger. One meal works, then the next time it doesn't..., and sometimes the hunger response is what I would call focused, but other times it isn't hunger at all, but I am terribly unfocused.

And, the hunger feeling has often been debated as to whether or not it really is hunger at all.

My thoughts, I would recommend focusing your attention on changing food selections rather than altering your P/C ratio. I know you said that you are having issues with the larger amount of fiber, and so your food choices kind of reflect that. But, at the same time, it could be that your lower-volume food choices need more tweaking. Personally, I would toss out the tomato paste (that one simply does not do anything for me at all). If you are eating a lot of fruit, keep it to the berries, instead of the other fruits that you mentioned. And, increasing the fat would not hurt, but just keep tabs on your measurements and your weight.

Also, although this is not necessarily a Zone recommendation, some people often mistake hunger for thirst, so try having some water to drink and then see if it takes care of the issue.

Some times what we perceive as hunger is want and not need.
Not real hunger. Water is a good idea.
I have also found that drinking slowly, a full glass of plain carbonated water,
does more to satiate then even a glass of plain water. Now, if I am feeling hungry just before it is time to eat,
as my schedule does not always allow me to eat before that point,
I will have a glass of plain carbonated water.
Also, after eating a meal, it takes time for receptors to signal brain that we've had enough or are full, sometimes.
So, knowing I've had a full 3 or 4 block meal, I will have carbonated water after a Zoned meal, and I feel really full immediately.

Larry, I agree with you that what you have is not significant hunger. Re the Zone bar test you mentioned, it sounds reasponable, maybe helpful, but I'd say take it further and see how you feel after a day or two of every meal composed of equally balanced P and C plus extra fat. I don't know if 1 meal of 2 bars plus extra fat will be enough to really tell. Your exercise doesn't sound intense enough to warrant adding more fat, but if you feel you're lacking energy to perform exercise at the level you usually do, more fat might be helpful. My thought is that you may not be eating quite enough each day. Another balanced block each day (balanced with your triple fat adjustment) might do the trick.

thanks, everyone. I have noticed that I'm lacking a little energy on my runs and thinking back I believe this hunger issue started when I began the isometric training program. It's like lifting weights but there is only one static and very intense, full effort rep that is held for 25 seconds. I think I'll try balanced P/F meals with the 3X fat, and add one more block to the day. I'm going to watch for the thirst-disguised-as-hunger thing, too.

Sue - I tried your suggestion of adding one balanced block + my extra fat. My morning pre-workout snack is now a whole Zone Bar instead of half. It helped but then I measured my waist and noticed that I have gained 1 inch. So, for two days I reduced my fat to 2X instead of 3X. That didn't go too well. The hunger came back, even hunger right after a full meal, so I'm back to my 3X fat today. My 33" waist was not my normal. The current 34" is, so I'm not going to worry about it.

I've been thinking about my diet prior to starting Zone and I think I've figured something out. While eating low carb Vegan for 10 months I was getting very little protein. Then I lost my appetite and quickly became 10 pounds underweight. I gained the weight back by working up to eating 3500 - 4000 calories a day of mostly fatty beef over a two week period (yes, I can easily gain weight on Atkins if I eat enough). Then I started the Zone Diet. I believe my body still thinks I'm starving and wants me to eat and build up for the next famine. I'd be curious to know if other people that have started the diet underweight had similar issues.

I'm eating about 2500 calories a day, now. I'm 6'1" and 161 lbs. If I gain 5 to 10 pounds, that will put me just on the high end of my normal, healthy range.

I am starting to try to eat more fibrous vegetables, too, to make me feel fuller. I was quite full this evening after eating a whole 1 lb. bag of frozen green beans as one of my carb blocks. Then I had a block of blueberries for desert and became immediately hungry and had to have a teaspoon of extra almond butter to stop the hunger. What's interesting is this meal kept me in the Zone and hunger free quite well for the rest of the evening.

Larry, from what I am interpreting, it sounds to me like your hunger is more controlled when you are using better choices for carbs.

Perhaps the added fat might work for now, but what will you do about it once you gain enough fat back that you are becoming worried about too much? If you are using the added fat to control hunger, it will be more difficult to back off of it when you need to cut it down.

My opinion, continue working on the veggies and making good favorable veggie choices. Eat enough fat, but don't eat it to the extreme that you are gaining and can't stop the hunger without it.

Larry,monitor tour LBM And body fat % e wry couple if weeks for now to see where any gains/ losses are occurring. Kepubg a food diary and when a meal results in significant hunger at 4 hours, tweak its lightly each time you make it until you get good satiety. I wouldn't change things much for now.

Hi - I wanted to give you all an update. When I first started my Food Diary thread on May 15, I found out from Sue that I was calculating my fat incorrectly and I was actually eating 5X fat instead of 3X. I've gradually lowered my fat intake and 3 days ago got down to adding NO extra fat, at all, and I'm not getting hungry eating 4P / 5C / 4F meals.

I calculated the difference in daily calories and it's about 700!! One interesting thing is that my weight has been the same all through the month of fat lowering. But I know that if I find that I'm losing weight I can probably put a little fat back in to keep my weight up.

My chiropractor got me started on taking Betaine HCL one month ago because he said that low stomach acid can cause neck pain. It hasn't really helped my neck that much but I'm wondering if improved digestion helped me lower the fat content of my meals.

My next experiment is taking 8 OmegaRX capsules a day, instead of 4. I'm up to 7 with no ill effects. I've felt pretty good since I started increasing the dose.

Good report, keep it up!

Sounds good, Larry. I don't know about the improved digestion question. The role of added monounsaturated fat is to control the rate of entry of carbohydrate into the blood stream. The more fat, the slower the entry, and the better the insulin control, which translates to better satiety and the elimination of hunger.

Larry

Do you take any type of Polyphenols ?

Our Seahealth plus is amazing stuff. SeaHealth Plus provides 5 servings of real fruits and vegetables and it’s the simplest, most inexpensive way to meet your 7-13 daily servings. Every ingredient is 100% real fruits and vegetables, not stuff created in a lab like some other brands. We only use the purest form of polyphenols, giving you the most potent anti-oxidant, anti-inflammatory and anti-aging benefits possible. Naturally flavored with dark cherry and honey. See http://shop.zonediet.com/product/de.../501.aspx.

We also have two New Polyphenols which contain Delphinidins derived from the Macqui Berry of southern Chili. Dr Sears writes that the Delphinidins have a greater impact on the AMP Kinase (the anti-aging enzyme) than other polyphenols. Dr Sears also states the delphinidin will aid in better control of blood suger , and less inflammation.

Sue is a great resource in these forums. She is very knowledgable and the best part about Sue is her knowledge and understanding about the Zone, OmegaRX and Polyphenols comes from experience and results. I can honestly say that if I am ever stuck on something about the Zone I would not hesitate to call Sue and ask her for the answer.

Hi Tech Support - yes, I take Sea Health Plus. I needed it in order to take the OmegaRX. I may try the Macqui Berry ones, too.

Thanks

Thanks, Tech. :)