Zone plan for morbidly obese Last Post 11 Jul 2004 01:29 AM by linda01720. 18 Replies. Sort: Oldest First Most Recent First
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linda01720
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 11 Jul 2004 01:29 AM Anybody know where I can find info specifically relating to formulating a zone plan for someone who is morbidly obese? Or, perhaps more generally, the question is scientific research/info about the nutritional needs/constraints for a healthy weight loss plan. Assume 400lb with target weight range is 145-165 lb From what I've read, Dr. Sears would recommend assuming 50% lean body mass & .6 activity factor, implying a daily protein requirement of 120g (17 blocks). 1547 calories + the 'uncounted' calories (vegetative protein, for example). According to an online Harris-Benedict equation calculators the daily caloric requirement is @3000 calories. Dr. Sears wrote that it is genetically impossible to lose more than 1 - 1 1/2 lb of body fat per week. That's a 500-750 cal/day deficit implying that consumption of 2250-2500 cal/day. It's unlikely that the uncounted calories will add up to 700+ calories. So what does this imply? Eat more to get caloric intake within the 2250-2500 range? Eat more blocks (more protein than 'needed')? Eat more monounsaturated fats? And then as weight lowers, adjust the calculations to reflect the new weight. Eventually some of the original lean body mass will be lost if only because the muscles don't have to carry around so much. It doesn't make sense to me to force muscle loss by eating too little, if that is, in fact, what will happen because only 1 - 1 1/2 lb of body fat can be utilized per week. Am I missing something or understood incorrectly? I need to understand these issues better so I can formulate a healthy plan for myself. Thank you for any info about how I might educate myself more. Linda
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linda01720
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Sue
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 12 Jul 2004 01:10 PM Congrats on choosing the Zone. Sounds like you've really done your homework. [quote:06a21b7e16="linda01720"]Anybody know where I can find info specifically relating to formulating a zone plan for someone who is morbidly obese? Or, perhaps more generally, the question is scientific research/info about the nutritional needs/constraints for a healthy weight loss plan. Assume 400lb with target weight range is 145-165 lb From what I've read, Dr. Sears would recommend assuming 50% lean body mass & .6 activity factor, implying a daily protein requirement of 120g (17 blocks). 1547 calories + the 'uncounted' calories (vegetative protein, for example). [/quote:06a21b7e16] Linda, this is correct, except he also recommends raising one's activity level at least two levels above current activity. This is to account for the fact that it is strenuous for the body to carry around the extra weight 24/7. The lowest activity level factor to be used is your case would be .7 (if you are sedentary). This would put you at a 20 block minimum for now. (200 LBx .7 activity factor) divided by 7g of P equals 20 blocks. If you take walks or do other athletic activity you would up the activity factor appropriately. Please try not to get too caught up in calories . More important in the Zone is to focus on tactics to lower insulin, while you make sure to get enought protein to sustain LBM. It's difficult to measure your LBM at this point, unless you've had it done by being immersed. I wouldn't necessarily think of it as losing LBM as you lose the pounds. I would add two or three blocks a day, for now. As you lose weight you can adjust blocks down. Sue :D Sue KnorrLost 100 lbs 18 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil.Consultant of Zone Labs
Scott
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 12 Jul 2004 03:29 PM [quote:1bc5b12491="linda01720"] From what I've read, Dr. Sears would recommend assuming 50% lean body mass & .6 activity factor, implying a daily protein requirement of 120g (17 blocks). 1547 calories + the 'uncounted' calories (vegetative protein, for example). According to an online Harris-Benedict equation calculators the daily caloric requirement is @3000 calories. Dr. Sears wrote that it is genetically impossible to lose more than 1 - 1 1/2 lb of body fat per week. That's a 500-750 cal/day deficit implying that consumption of 2250-2500 cal/day. It's unlikely that the uncounted calories will add up to 700+ calories. So what does this imply? Eat more to get caloric intake within the 2250-2500 range? Eat more blocks (more protein than 'needed')? Eat more monounsaturated fats? [/quote:1bc5b12491] The Harris-Benedict equation is not applicable when you are thinking hormonally. Follow the Zone recommendations and things will fall into place.
linda01720
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 13 Jul 2004 03:36 AM Scott, why doesn't the Harris-Benedict equation apply? Although, Sue's recommendation of 20 blocks would probably be close to the 2250-2500 range after all. Sue, where does Dr. Sears recommend an activity level of .7 (or 2+ actual activity level)? I'm almost certain I read .6, although it would take me a while to find exactly where. Linda
Sue
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 13 Jul 2004 04:46 PM [quote:42e7994134="linda01720"]Scott, why doesn't the Harris-Benedict equation apply? Although, Sue's recommendation of 20 blocks would probably be close to the 2250-2500 range after all. Sue, where does Dr. Sears recommend an activity level of .7 (or 2+ actual activity level)? I'm almost certain I read .6, although it would take me a while to find exactly where. Linda[/quote:42e7994134] Hi Linda, it's either in the archives of the "old Forums" of this site (those previous to seitching to this curent format, which I don't believe we are able to access at this point in time) or in past questions in the "Ask D.r Sears" section. Sue Sue KnorrLost 100 lbs 18 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil.Consultant of Zone Labs
Patrick

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 15 Jul 2004 12:12 AM Hi Linda. I know that for some people exactitude of information is important. It almost seems like you are psychologically looking for a reason to make it difficult for yourself. I really don't mean this as an insult or anything. I am really saying this because if you are currently at 400lbs and want to bring it down closer to 150lbs - well start by going down to 350lbs and then 250lbs and honestly, if you follow the Zone even at 60-80% of what it should be, you will be losing pounds at a fast rate for 100% sure. I would recommend that you focus on getting results ASAP and not fuss so much on exactitude of numbers. You currently are in a serious health crisis and your #1 priority should be on getting results now rather that "should I be eating 1700 calories or 2200 calories..." In your case I would advise to simply eat 3 [u:b92b37d4f7]balanced[/u:b92b37d4f7] meals and two [u:b92b37d4f7]balanced[/u:b92b37d4f7] snacks per day using the eyball method, only drink PLENTY of water and walk for at least 30 minutes every day. If you want to make it even better keep trying to limit or eliminate the 5 worst things: Pasta, Rice, Potatoes, Cereal, Bread and eat mostly fruist and vegetables using legumes or Steel Cut Oats to reduce the size of your meals (I know it is sometimes hard to eat 8 cups of brocoli). If you do this it is GUARANTEED that you will see great results of considerable fat loss, gained energy, lower heart risks, and very possibly a new lease on life. As far as slight loss of LBM, I think it should be the least of your concerns right now especially if you are getting between 15 and 20 blocks of protein every day. Like I said focus on getting started and seeing results RIGHT NOW and then worry about exactitudes and precision to get closer to 100% of the Zone for yourself and possibly some day your biggest worry will be seeing your ab muscles shining in the sun... Pat
linda01720
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 15 Jul 2004 03:02 AM Pat, I thought this forum was for questions relating to the science underlying the Zone philosophy. From reading other posts it seemed that some contributers were familiar with current research. So I asked whether anyone could refer me to research/citations backing Dr. Sears' statement regarding the genetic limitation of losing more that 1 - 1 1/2 lb body fat per week. Because I would like to know. Because it seems like for people such as myself who are 'extreme' cases, applying what little I have learned from reading Dr. Sears & others seems to point to an important question. If a conservative estimate of my daily caloric deficit implies a weekly loss of 3 lb and only 1 - 1 1/2 lb body fat is possible, then where is the remainder coming from? Note that I am not refering to scale weight. To me, a weekly loss of 1 1/2 - 2 lb lbm is not something to take lightly, if that is, in fact, what is happening. Perhaps there need to be some adjustments to the zone (or any other) approach. I'd like to know what, if any, research is being done regarding HEALTHY weight loss by morbidly obese people. My questions are valid no matter what I weigh. Take it as a hypothetical case. I take it that your position is that it doesn't matter how much fat & muscle a morbidly obese person loses per week. That it should be done as quickly as possible. What research supports your position? BTW, I have been eating calorie restricted balanced meals/snacks for over 3 months. I walk or swim 30-45 minutes daily. I've incorporated some strength-training & stretching into my regular routine. I feel fantastic & am noticing great changes. You're correct. I do strive to strive for 'exact information', but my questions do not stop me from trying to make healthy choices each and every day. I would like them to be informed choices, based on science, not just 'what people say'. Linda
Patrick

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linda01720
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Scott
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Patrick

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Dennis

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Scott
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 16 Jul 2004 11:18 AM [quote:f6a6c851e6="gofish"] I am just winging it with these suggestions based on my common sense understanding. I can tell that you are an intelligent person and I am sure that you can tell which of my suggestions may benefit you the most. And If you can't, rest assured that there will be a bunch of responses to this post by those who think I have messed up some point. [/quote:f6a6c851e6] Winging it? C'mon Dennis. :wink: You didn't mess up a bit. Excellent post.
Scott
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 16 Jul 2004 11:22 AM [quote:f4552613bf="gofish"] just as the fact that I can eat a ton of carbs and zap my insulin to high levels all the time while not gaining any fat )[/quote:f4552613bf] I am the same way with respect to insulin and fat gain, but do you experience other hormonal consequences from such high insulin levels? Obesity can be thought of one of many consequences of high insulin levels.
Dennis

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 16 Jul 2004 01:12 PM [quote:3cf2eaf08c="Scott"][quote:3cf2eaf08c="gofish"] just as the fact that I can eat a ton of carbs and zap my insulin to high levels all the time while not gaining any fat )[/quote:3cf2eaf08c] I am the same way with respect to insulin and fat gain, but do you experience other hormonal consequences from such high insulin levels? Obesity can be thought of one of many consequences of high insulin levels.[/quote:3cf2eaf08c] Scott, Yes, I have adverse reactions to the high insulin levels even though gaining weight is not one of them. My mental and physical energy fall drastically. I am sure that my internal organs also suffer from the strain. My immune system also over reacts. The Zone and PGFO have corrected 90% of my problems over that last year. Now I feel the way I always thought I should feel if I were like other healthy people. However, I did gain a lot of will power after decades of having to force myself to get the job done even when I did not feel well. Hardship fosters strength as long as it does not kill you. A point often lost in our society when it comes to teaching children strength of character. But let's not get this thread off Linda. It is her topic and she should get all the help she asks for here. I would love for her to have the joy of mobility that carrying 400 pounds must severely restrict. I would need twice my muscle strength to even walk around if I weighed that much. I would not be able to sit in any chair in my house, etc.,etc.,etc. Linda, you now have the magic key in the Zone philosophy, use it to unlock your healthy future. I know you can do it! :D
Scott
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 16 Jul 2004 01:17 PM [quote:1b0af575ee="gofish"] But let's not get this thread off Linda. It is her topic and she should get all the help she asks for here. I would love for her to have the joy of mobility that carrying 400 pounds must severely restrict. Linda, you now have the magic key in the Zone philosophy, use it to unlock your healthy future. I know you can do it! :D[/quote:1b0af575ee] Agree wholeheartedly.
Sue
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 16 Jul 2004 07:50 PM [quote:388d9ac2bd="Scott"][quote:388d9ac2bd="gofish"] I am just winging it with these suggestions based on my common sense understanding. I can tell that you are an intelligent person and I am sure that you can tell which of my suggestions may benefit you the most. And If you can't, rest assured that there will be a bunch of responses to this post by those who think I have messed up some point. [/quote:388d9ac2bd] Winging it? C'mon Dennis. :wink: You didn't mess up a bit. Excellent post.[/quote:388d9ac2bd] And I second that! Sue 8) Sue KnorrLost 100 lbs 18 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil.Consultant of Zone Labs
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