I was wondering if anyone knew the proper ratio f carbs, proteins, and fats for dogs. I was thinking that if the zone works so well for us, it would be great for dogs too. I'd like to also start giving my dog a fish oil once a day. He's small (12lbs) so I think 1 cap would be fine. Any ideas, or advice from someone who has zoned their dog would be grea.

I don't have a dog, but I think dogs would require a bit higher ratio of protein than a person would. Maybe a veterinarian can answer that question. Also, I believe you can find fish oil supplements at pet stores like Petco, probably better suited for animals. I am not sure if Zone Labs fish oil is appropriate for animals. Probably a great question for Zone Chat!

Hi Becky,

According to Dr. Sears, dogs do very well on a Zone balanced diet, while cats would not because they have very different nutritional needs.

You could use the LIVE ZONE CHAT (top right of the page) to find out how much fish oil to give to a small dog. I would take care to give your dog the best possible fish oil so as not to fill it's tiny body with heavy metals, and dangerous chemicals from the pollution in the oceans that are found in today's fish.

Just to expand on what Sue said, I think that neither a dog nor a cat would do very well with the "people" version of the Zone. I think that an animal's zone is going to be different. Just like we humans each have individual zones, so does an animal. So, I think I understand what Sue is saying, in that she believes that a dog would do well with the same ratios as a human would. That may be true, I am not a dog person (hence the name cranberryCAT)-LOL!

But, an animal may be on a totally different ratio than humans. Does that mean that the animal isn't in the Zone? I don't think so. I think that the Zone ratio is different for other animals, which actually is what keeps the animal IN the Zone.

Thanks for your replies, CC and Sue. I would not ask any of the vets around here for nutrition advivce. Most vets are all about pushing whatever kind of food funds their office. Most of the food that the vets support is full of garbage. Hill's Science Diet, Purina, Royal Canin, its all crap food. Like the human version of fast food. Full of fillers and junk. I pretty much already know how I would do it. I'd have to home cook for him. I was just seeing if anyone on here had experience with it. Good idea on the LiveChat, Sue. Have you ever used it? I've never used it yet. If I do give him fish oil, I would only use OmegaRx. They do make and sell fish oils for dogs out there, but its not Rx grade. Thanks girls!

Sorry to hear about the vets in your area. I was thinking that they could give you advice on the ratio, but if you tell them that you WANT to feed your animal a whole food diet, I would think that they could tell you the nutritional requirements.

Also, I would confirm whether the Zone Lab's fish oil is appropriate to give to a pet, before doing so. I think that there are fish oils that are sold that may have more appropriate ratios.

I had asked this a few months ago, when my elderly cat of 18 years was not doing so well. I wanted to put him on fish oil, and the advice I had received was to check out the brands at Petco. I don't think Sue must have seen the posts, though. I don't recall getting any input from her on the subject. My cat ended up passing away. I think he probably had a stroke.

Here is a copy of a post from the thread earlier in the year:
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http://www.sashasblend.com.au/cb_pa..._blend.php

I think this might be helpful! Sasha's blend is formulated for cats (and dogs)....this is a very informative website.

My brother's cat had an injury and the vet prescribed this. My niece used to work at Ryan's Global Pet Food Store which specializes in real food and nutrition for pets.

Hope this helps!

Hi Becky,

Here are a couple of articles by Barry Sears about dogs and cats in regard to the Zone diet. You can find more by searching drsears.com using the word dog.



Zoning your pet
Last Updated Aug 2007


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Zoning your pet By: Dr. Barry Sears Filed: 6/9/97 The hormonal rules that govern humans also govern cats and dogs. Insulin is still a storage hormone, glucagon is a mobilization hormone, and eicosanoids are the master hormones that orchestrate how your pets function. Therefore, putting your pets on a\ Zone Diet with some simple adjustments is the best thing you can do as an owner. When mealtime arrives, take a look on the nutritional labeling for the pet food you are currently using. Add the appropriate amount of protein or carbohydrate to make it Zone perfect. For dogs this ratio of protein to carbohydrate will be very similar to the balance of protein to carbohydrate for yourself, whereas cats will need a slightly higher ratio of protein to carbohydrate than you do. And if you're really concerned about your pet, then when you are preparing Zone meals for yourself, make a little more and give it to your pet. OK, dogs are not very picky eaters so they will probably eat it as presented. Cats, on the other hand, may require you to put the food in a blender to meet their taste bud requirements. Finally one last difference between dogs and cats. Cats cannot make the metabolically activated building blocks required for eicosanoid production. Therefore you will have to add some fish oil and vegetable oil containing gamma linolenic acid to their diets. Suitable sources might be cod liver oil (maybe a teaspoon per day) and borage oil (but add the equivalent of one only capsule every two weeks to their diet). Adding the same for your dog, while not essential, can only help. What can you expect? A healthier, more active pet, with a more luxurious coat. It's all in the food you feed them. But then it always has been. http://www.drsears.com/tabId/399/it...r-pet.aspx



Insulin resistance in cats
Last Updated Aug 2007


Q: I am a practicing small animal veterinarian. I have used fish oil supplementation to treat arthritis, food and inhalant allergies in a high number of dogs and cats. Most commercially prepared pet foods are very high in simple carbohydrates. While cats do develop type 2 diabetes, dogs do not. Do you have evidence to suggest that glycemic load and increased insulin levels from over-consumption of simple carbs reduce the efficacy of EPA supplementation and result in escalated levels of silent inflammation?

A: Cats are very prone to the development of diabetes due to their different genetics compared to dogs. The latest research indicates that cats will do much better on a very high-protein diet (approximately 60-70 percent protein), whereas dogs do much better on a Zone-like balance. By reducing the glycemic load of the cat food, significantly lower amounts of EPA will be required to provide significant health benefits. http://www.drsears.com/tabId/399/it...-cats.aspx




This one is a letter to Dr. Sears from a dog owner:

Fish oil is not just for people
Last Updated Aug 2007


Dear Dr. Sears,

A wonderful thing is happening at our house. I read "The Omega Rx Zone" about three months ago. My husband and I are taking the oils and are both noticing good changes. I no longer rely on Advil to get through a day with what I suppose is arthritis. The story I wish to tell is of our 8-year-old dog -- a beautiful Akita named Azumah. He had been diagnosed with VKH syndrome -- a disease in which the immune system attacks the pigment-producing cells in the body (melanocytes). Symptoms of VKH syndrome include uveitis, depigmentation (whitening) of the hair and skin, and crusting of the nose, lips, eyelids, and ear tips. Treatment for VKH syndrome includes the use of topical and systemic steroids or other drugs that suppress the immune system. Aggressive treatment can help control this difficult disease to reduce the likelihood that secondary glaucoma and retinal detachments will occur. Approximately a year and a half ago, his doctor remarked that our dog was the only dog with this disease that he had been able to keep in remission. We always gave him 50 mg of Immuran twice weekly, but I wondered if it might also have something to do with his food -- Abady dog food contains fish oil. When I read your book, Azumah had been failing for about two years. He had developed a retching cough that might occur 20 times in a day. His fur was so thin people asked if we shaved him. He had no undercoat left. He was stiff and lethargic and had no flesh on top of his head -- just bones pushing against his skin even though he had not lost weight. Though not overweight, he had lost muscle. His ears were crusted, and a dark scabby crust was starting to cover his legs and part of his chest. The ears had been crusted for two years, and his skin was fragile. The slightest thing could make it bleed. His lips had lost a lot of pigmentation, and red fur was replacing the gray on his muzzle. His skin did not smell good, and his former plume tail was skinny. People would ask what breed he was because he didn't really look like an Akita any more. Last fall we dug a hole to bury him because we did not think he would make it through the winter. However, his beautiful disposition remained intact. I began to think, after reading your book, that the fish oil in his lifelong diet (which also included a good amount of high quality animal protein) could have been responsible for his better than usual response to this genetic disease. Since we had nothing to lose, I started him on four capsules daily of the Omega Rx pharmaceutical-grade fish oil -- two in the a.m. and p.m. Within three days we saw some difference. The crust on his ears began to disappear first. Then his fur, including the undercoat, began to grow in beautifully. The crust is almost gone from his legs, and his chest skin is clear. Flesh has returned to the top of his head, and muscles have come back all over his body and especially noticeable on his neck. His lips and nose are shiny and black again, and the skin is no longer fragile. He has lost most of his stiffness, and his gait is now fluid. He plays with our other dogs a lot and chases squirrels just for fun. His face looks so different -- younger and happier with bright eyes. After 10 weeks the changes are still noticeable on a daily basis. Just this week we realized his horrible coughing sound has left entirely! We last heard it five days ago!

Denise Baxter http://www.drsears.com/tabId/399/it...eople.aspx

Becky,

I would be very careful about introducing your dog to the zone diet. You must be extremely knowledged in what human foods dogs can have, in what form and quantity. I would consider giving yours a very high quality fish oil and finding a quality dog food. I am a dog person. I have 4 at home and also work for a humane society. I have had to go thru periods of cooking mine human food due to special dietary needs/restrictions. We have been using Blue Buffalo for almost 2 years now. It is amazing! It is made from all human grade food, no fillers, and is balanced correctly for a dog's nutritional needs. The change in our dogs when switching was amazing. We have an 11 year old Shar-pei. They generally have a life span of 8 years, sometimes 10, but ours is still vibrant and full of energy. I credit it to the Blue Buff food and his vitamins. They just recently started selling it where we live. Until they did, we were driving an hour every other weekend because it is such a great dog food. You should really check out their website so you can read about it for yourself. www.bluebuff.com

Good for you for thinking of your canine friend!!

Fish Oil: Fish oil is a great supplement for dogs of all sizes and ages. The optimium amount to feed can vary from breed to breed and among individuals. Cold weather dogs (labs, huskies, samoyeds etc) usually thrive on a higher fat percentage diet than do thinner dogs from warmer climates. And small or miniaturized dogs also require a bit of watching since their digestive systems are shorter and too much fat can cause loose stools. Start with a capsule (or a 1/2 tsp if you use a pump) and move up from there. You can use your own oil or buy a quality salmon oil product from a high end pet food store. Stay away from the big box stores for food products. Dog food is one case where you get what you pay for. Downer cows and chickens and their 'by products' are not what you want to feed your dog.

Zone Diet for Dogs: There are the AAFCO standards for commercial foods that describe to some degree the ratios dogs should eat. But these are based on studies paid for by the dog food companies. However, again, breeds can be very different and dogs are NOT people and do not have the same inuslin responses and need to eat as often. (Unless ill with diabetes or other metabolic disease - which are not as common in dogs). I feed and recommend a mome made or commerically prepared raw or cooked real food diet. Or at least a diet supplemented with real food. There are several foods out there (Darwin's, Steve's, Nature's Variety) that are sold frozen and several books available on making your own (Kymythy Shultzes book is good, The Pitcairn book also) Most dogs will be healthier on a slightly imbalanced real food diet more than they would be even on the best desert dry kibble. Balancing out the calcium/phosphorous ration is key and little reading will help you there. Our large breed hunting dogs have all lived a healthy active life into their late teens - due I beleive to the diet.

So yes you are right to think diet can improve their health and that fish oil is a good addition. Just remember canines have different feeding schedule needs and to a lesser degree, nutrional requirements. A moderate protein, moderate fat, moderate carb diet (Zone-like for most dogs and carbs from veggies more than grains) is a good paradigm. But dogs do benefit from eating less frequently than humans. My dogs even fast one day a week. Their systems were designed for it.

Hello,

I noticed how dogs--with light colored fur, tend to have these orange to purple smears under their eyes, their mouths, their arm-pits, groin etc.... A really bad case was when I took care of another family pet--and she had the worst I had ever seen. She was licking the areas she could reach until I had to take her to the vet. He mentioned that it might be a wheat allergy. So, I took her off wheat, and gave her fish oil, some rice, light vegetables, meat and a small amount of lamb and rice dog food (had no other grains in it). Within two weeks she was clear of all the terrible smears, and her coat looked great! When her owner came to pick her up he remarked about how nice I was to have given her a bath--to which I explained that the only thing thAT HAD WASHED HER, WAS A CHANGE IN HER DIET--and a cleanse from the inside.

So, she went back to her home--and I told her owner that I had stopped her from eating wheat, and had supplemented her meals as I had mentioned--but he thought I was silly. So, he started feeding her the bad stuff again, and the next thing I knew, she was back on the meds, and had these aweful smears back. And, she was miserable--itching and licking herself.

So, I looked at his food and told him again what I had done for his dog. He gradually changed her diet. It took a year--but finally she is off he grains--and wow what a difference! The smears are gone--she is off the meds, and happy--as you can imagine. She is still not on the fish oil--but my dogs are--and they are free of all skin issues--always have been. And their skin is great!

Now I am not a pro--and I have only been doing the zone for a few days. Does anyone see any difference in their own skin? How about their pets skin?

Thanks--Niki

Yes, Niki, I noticed a huge difference in my skin. Thanks for sharing that experience with us!

Hi Niki!

Wow, it took him way too long to get his dog back on a good diet! It's so hard for me to understand why people will let their pets suffer rather than put in a little extra effort to keep them happy and healthy.

I have noticed my skin retains moisture and appears more even toned since the zone and fish oil. I am fairly dark-skinned naturally but have lots of freckles and have developed acne over the last couple of years. I have only had a few blemishes since starting the new lifestyle, and those have cleared up in days rather than weeks like before. I also have a sensitivity to sunlight because of other medicines I am on. This is improving, even though I am still on the medicines that cause it. I can actually spend entire days outside without wearing long sleeves and only get a small rash, if at all.

For the dogs, mine take a supplement that includes their fish oil. It makes their coats so soft and shiney. My sharpei use to feel so rough to the touch that it would make us itch when he layed in the bed. Now, he is so soft!

I'm glad you asked the question about skin, because I hadn't really thought about it, but I was having a lot of problems with red inflamed bumps - sort of like pimples but not quite, in moderately large concentrations on the sides of my face and under my jaw. I just now remembered about them, and realized that they have been gone since soon after I started the zone diet a few months ago!
(Unfortunately, I still have many red bumps on my arms and legs that seem to each have an ingrown hair stuck inside that I need to see a dermatologist about...)

Cordella-
I am so glad you mentioned that your dogs skip entire days of eating because my dog sometimes does that, and although I've sort of accepted it as her normal, it's a relief to hear that it is normal among dogs in general.
I have a 12-13 pound shih-tzu (so sweet!) and she has been much less enthusiastic about her food in general lately - I think I need to change her diet (I know to do it very slowly). I have seen what a HUGE difference diet makes in myself and in the rest of my family, and I am now hopeful about how it can help her, too. I wonder if you know, or know where I can find out more about what I should optimally be feeding her? It is hard for me to prepare food from scratch because I have MS and trigeminal neuralgia pain and am often unable to cook even for the people in my family...

Hey everyone,

I have been doing the zone for about 2 weeks now, and I have lost 7 pounds.

I have a ways to go--about 60 pounds to begin with.

Has anyone stopped eating the grains altogether?

I actually have stopped eating all grains (including potatoes) and feel remarkably fine. Seems bizarre, because some kind of white carb has always been a portion of every meal.

Anyways--thanks a bundle everyone.

Sincerely,

Niki

Hi Niki!

I stopped eating grains for the most part when I started eating in the Zone 15 years ago. The only ones I eat now are a block oats or some Zone pasta once every couple of months, a block of Zone Cereal infrequently and now and then a corn chip crumbled over a Tex-Mex flavored salad. I feel much better without grain.

Niki,

I think it even goes a bit further than that. I not only have eliminated grain, but I also avoid processed food as much as possible.

Hi Becky, I have been researching diets for dogs for a few years in my efforts to create a home cooked diet for my dogs. I have two miniature poodles. First of all, most of the recipes for home cooked dog meals base their fat, protein, and carb ratios on what is typically found in kibble. The problem here is that the ratios traditionally used in kibble are optimized for the manufacture, shelf life, texture, and low cost aspects and not for canine health. Most kibbles have a much higher percentage of carbs than would be found in a wild canine's diet (a fox, wild dog, wolf,feral dog, coyote). Athough the dog's closest relative is the wolf and the wolf will choose a carnivore diet in the wild whenever it can, this is not scientific proof that dogs need a pure carnivore diet. It makes sense, however, that the bulk of the diet should be high quality animal protein. Grains are more unatural for canines than for primates so I have decided to eliminate them from my dogs' diet. I usually add a bit of non-grain carb to a predominantly meat meal (for example, dinner for a 15 pound dog could be 5 oz. of cooked steak with its natural fat content served with a calcium supplement, a taurine supplement, and a couple of tablespoons of cooked veggies. I am currently alternating home cooked meals with commercial kibbles and canned foods so my dogs get plenty of vitamin supplementation there (note, dogs fed raw meat and bones get their vitamins naturally and don't need supplements). It makes sense that dogs would require a higher percentage of animal fat than humans. A really good website for information on canine nutrition is www.dogaware.com. michellebollag