Julie - yes we are all individuals and need to find what works. If you follow me around a bit you will see that what I post about what I am doing is constantly being portrayed as being incorrect. The amazing thing is that none of us live in each others bodies. The zone would not include adjustments if we were all the same. It would be very rigid

Sue - as far as all of those blood tests go, if you would like to foot the bill, I'll go right now. However, with my DH's dx and things that need to be purchased at the moment, I'll be spending well over $100,000.00 to buy it all and get it all done. No insurance doesn't cover the van needed to transport, the portable ramp to get him into places, the new bathroom that needs to be done to accommodate the wheelchair, the lift to get him up to an area that we can get the chair into the house. (the chair itself weighs over 300lbs). And who knows what all in the next 6 months. Sooooo I need to go by how I feel, no other option.

My gym WO today to keep me strong and keep me healthy took 2 hours and burnt 613 cals based on my Heart Rate Monitor that is set with all my stats. I know we don't count calories here, we use blocks and I know that ATP from fat means we don't need to replace 613 cals. Even if we cut that number in half, I still used up over 3 blocks on my WO. I will be going to yoga tonight, that always nets another 200 cals or at least 1 block. And I need to get my Ddog out for his power walk. At least another 200 cals or 1 block. So over the course of the day calc blocks as half of the cals burnt, I need to replace 5 blocks.

I had a one block snack after my WO (zone snack bar)

Lunch will be - 3 oz of extra lean ground beef, a large salad that will equal approx 1 carb, a pear and 1 Tbs of dressing made from EVOO and balsamic vinegar plus some spices.

Blocks for the day so far 8

CC - yes, I am not going to base my morning on one night of a 2 block snack. I will continue to monitor. And you are correct, I am losing FAT, gaining LBM and I do have energy I'm focused and feel great all day.

ok, Too much to do, gotta get moving.

I definitely agree, I think that it is totally acceptable to gauge the Zone by how you are feeling. I don't have the extra cash sitting around to spend on lab tests that are not covered by insurance, either. Not that I am planning to spend all that you need to spend, but you know how it is, raising 3 kids, trying to save for their futures, and always wondering if DH is going to have a job or come home with another lay-off slip (says work is very slow again, and he has no seniority).

And, as I pointed out, we can't follow our labs on a daily basis, so if things are out of whack on any given day, we would only be able to know this by how we feel. The SIP, fasting insulin, and TG/HDL ratio are only things that show Zone compliance over a given timeframe. They tell you about your past, but they really don't tell you about your future (unless you do nothing to improve your health--then one could assume that these tests are telling your future).

Another point regarding the SIP: if you get a baseline lab, and realize how far off you have been in the past, this does not mean that your current interventions are not working, unless you were going to recheck the test periodically. Again, since this is quite an expensive test, it is almost realistically improbable that most people would be able to afford to do a follow-up, let alone the original test.

So, how would you know if you were doing what you need to do to improve your health?

Well, seems to me that Barry has written about that, too. We go by how we feel!

CC - I hear you about general costs and with the state of the economy, I'm going to be paying these bills long after my DH is gone. My DS grads from college in a couple of weeks, so while that bill isn't going any higher, it still needs paid and let me warn you college isn't cheap. My DD is a freshman in HS, so in 3 years she'll want to head out to college too. Money doesn't go on trees, so all I can do is pray we'll be able to make it. Those tests just do not fit in the budget at the moment.

one thing that keeps me going is I had a cholesterol panel in July of 07, my Total Cholesterol was 145. At the time I wasn't worried about ratios, but I was told that everything was excellent, so I can only guess that nothing else was high or even boarderline since I was not told. My physician is very conservative and likes to get people started on meds when they are just boarderline on anything. A bit too drastic for me, but there was no mention of anything being even remotely close. I'll have to just live with those answers for now.

You could ask your doc's office to send you the results, or let you know what your triglycerides and HDL were, and then you can do the ratio yourself.

Then, you could assume that if your results were good pre-zone, then they can only get better in the Zone!

Hi Zoners!

Wow! Just gotta say, I'm appalled by the continuing barrage of sniping snarky remarks and badgering posts consistently being addressed to me by a couple of members of these forums. I can't speak for other members here, but I find that kind of behavior very offensive. It has no place in this friendly online community.

Sue,

I stopped by and saw your pic. I updated mine back to what I had. I should probably get a more current shot.

You have a bunch space after your pic. Try updating your profile and deleting all the space after the pic info.

Mine took a couple trys to get right. They were on top of eachother at one point.

Matt

Hey Matt!

Yeah, the space, I know. Thanks for reminding me. I've been away all day and was planning to work on it more later. I should do it now while I'm thinking of it!

The other day I mentioned to someone in the Zone Labs office that the photo links weren't enabled and they had the feature turned back on.

There we go! That's better.

Sue - if you felt I was being snarky, I do apologize. I've just been trying to get answers and I haven't felt that you clearly understood my full situation. I tried explaining what I am dealing with here at home.

Zoners - if you have been offended I apologize to you as well.

Dinner tonght - 1/2c zone pasta with brocolli, hot peppers, a salad, red pepper pesto, salad dressing, 3.5 oz of tuna canned in water, 1/2 oz of Romano cheese. Strawberries for dessert 4 blocks.

Day so far 12 blocks.

My next post will be my email convo with Dave Schrek.

Please read from the bottom up to see what I asked and how it was answered.



Hi Sue,

Well, two workouts 3 days a week, weights, cardio, walks and yoga. If everyone did half of what you do we'd be a much healthier country.
Based on your routine I'd estimate you as being "very active." As you're doing now use that level of activity as a guide. Notice how you feel, your recovery and strength to determine the ideal amount of protein. As mentioned before if you do need to add in protein it would only be one or two complete (P/C/F) blocks.
Hope this helps and keep up the good work!
Sincerely,
Dr. Sears Customer Support
From: Sue Pfeiffer
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 2:03 PM
To: Dave Schreck
Subject: Re: knowing the exact amount of protein

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your reply. I'm wondering, could you go back over my email below and based on the listed exercise I do in a given week tell me which activity level to chose when checking the recommended level of blocks for my LBM? I'd like to measure it out for a week or two to see what it looks like on a plate. That will help me eyeball it better as I did need to up the protein from just my palm size as the first level I chose was not cutting it for me. Hormonally it was right, but my recovery and strength were off and that is why I upped it. I just want to be sure I don't have it too high.

Thanks again for your help,

sue

From: Dave Schreck
To: "spfeiffer64
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 1:48:19 PM
Subject: knowing the exact amount of protein

Hi Sue,

Fortunately, the Zone is flexible and most do not have to be exact and precise to achieve benefits. The first step to determine if your meal is hormonally correct (P/C/F) is to look at the time.
You should have good mental focus, physical energy and no hunger for up to 4 to 5 hours. Determining if your amount of protein using the plate method is correct is first reflected in how you feel after a meal. Over time, perhaps 1-2 weeks you may determine if you're protein adequate by noticing your strength and recovery time. A loss of strength and longer recovery times may indicate slightly more protein is required (1 block P/C/F). Short of blood work and expensive body scans these subjective markers are the best ways to determine your protein needs to maintain LBM.
We hope you find this helpful.
Sincerely,
Dr. Sears Customer Support



From: Sue Pfeiffer
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:41 PM
To: Lynn Sears
Subject: Re: A New Ask Dr. Sears has been submitted
Lynn,

Thank you for your reply, but I have a feeling I did not word that question as well as I should. There was a discussion on one of the threads and a person on there felt that I was eating too many blocks. I had been really struggling with my original number of blocks given by the calculator. I sat down and really thought about my exercise level. I went back to the calculator and it gave me a higher amount of blocks. So I upped to that and was doing somewhat better. I decided to try taking it up a bit more and felt that I had finally hit the right amount. I started at 11 and could not get that to work for me. The new value was 13. I've gone as high as 15. I'm generally in the range of 13-15.
My LBM currently is 102 and has gone up from the original 95. I'm 5'1. However I do exercise at least 2 times a day with 3 days a week being a gym WO that is both weights and cardio, plus another walk later in the day and /or yoga which I do 2x a week. On non-gym days I run in the morning and then walk later in the day.
My gym WO's generally last 2 hours, my walks are 45 min -1 hour. My runs are approx 45 min. Yoga is a 1 hour class.
The way I am eating, I can make the recommened eating times w/o hunger between and I am focused and feel great. My question is, do you think that I am mis-calculating my number of blocks based upon what I am calculating my protein needs to be? How would I be able to tell? I am not gaining weight, so I don't feel I'm over eating. I'm adding LBM so I don't think it's under.
Where the main question comes in, is when using the plate method. Since with that you have no "real" way of knowing the exact amount of protein you are getting, is there some clue other than weight gain, which could take time, if you are not over by much or loss of LBM which again would take time to register?

I hope I am finally phrasing this correctly since everyone wants to tell me how to adjust my carb and that is not what I'm talking about here.

Thank you for taking the time to answer this for me.

sue

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Sue on 05/05/2009 5:17 PM

Hi Zoners!

Wow! Just gotta say, I'm appalled by the continuing barrage of sniping snarky remarks and badgering posts consistently being addressed to me by a couple of members of these forums. I can't speak for other members here, but I find that kind of behavior very offensive. It has no place in this friendly online community. </div>

--------------------------------------------------------------

Sniping, snarky and badgering? What is this all about?

Yep, it is a nice, friendly community here, and I thought we all had a right to have a say. There isn't anything here that I see as offensive, but if anyone can point it out to me, feel free to let me know. I am not afraid to admit that I made a mistake, and I am not afraid to apologize, if an apology is due.

Well, sue, all I can say is that you must know your body very well! This is what I have felt all along, that YOU must decide what is right for you.

Based on what Dave says, you are right on the money with your activity level, and then he suggests a few more blocks flexibility to adjust for performance, if needed. And, your description of what your activity level is didn't even include assisting your DH.

Now, maybe if you actually eat the right number of blocks during the day, that might cure the hunger problem in the morning!

Good Morning Zoners!

Last night I went back to a 1 block snack since I knew for sure how many blocks I had, had yesterday because I measured and didn't plate any meal. My day ended with 13 blocks. When I awoke this morning, I was a bit hungry, but not like the other days. I knew I could slowly get my breakfast together. I will try 2 again tonight.

Breakfast today: yogurt, raspberries, grapefruit, Smart bran, almonds and Canadian Bacon for a total of just under 4 blocks

Lunch is packed: large salad w/chickpeas and deli meat and dressing = 3 blocks

I do not have dinner planned just yet, but will be back to post.

thats awesome sue!

sue,

Sounds good. Time will tell, but I am thinking that the 2 block snack at bedtime is a good idea. Even if you still want to keep the day at 13 blocks, perhaps just rearranging things so that you can afford the extra block at night.

My experience has been that I feel I "metabolize" differently at different times of the day. So, for instance, a meal that works nicely for me at dinner may not work very well in a different time slot. So, whether you go with 13 blocks or even up to 15 (or whatever it is that you are planning on), I think the solution is going to be in having that 2 block snack at night. My other idea was to make it a 1 block snack, but perhaps a bit heavy in fat, to help with the glycemic control.

I enjoy seeing your meal posts, keep'em coming!

Thanks Julie

CC - I am going to go with 2 blocks again tonight. That did seem better, so we will see tomorrow morning.

Dinner tonight - Pork, coleslaw, baked potato 3 blocks.

Evening Snack will be fruit and cottage cheese and almonds. 2 blocks

My day total will only be 12 today. I missed a snack when they were delivering the wheelchair. I'm not overly concerned as that also got in the way of my exercise.

I do feel that although my body is recovering from yesterday's WO, my body seems to do better when I work my blocks around my level of activity for the day.

Hi Zoners,

As some of you here may know, I'm re-reading through ETZ and I came across some parts that were alluded to earlier in the convo. I wanted to post these for those of you who may have never read this particular book.

These 2 comments are on page 97 and part of a section entitled Helpful Hints For The Zone, there are 6 hints in all, but I really like to concentrate on the last 2 of them.

#5 - If you find yourself hungry and craving sugar or sweets two or three hours after a meal, you probably consumed too many carbohydrates that last meal. Whenever you have a problem with hunger or carbohydrate cravings, look to your last meal for a clue to the reason why.

#6 - No matter how consistently you follow this dietary strategy, you are bound to make mistakes. This is especially true at parties or when traveling. Remember, if you're only out of the Zone for a short period of time, you're only one meal away from re-entering. It's like falling off a bike-- you just get back up and continue your journey.

I love how those are put as #6 seems to expand on #5 First you look back to your last meal. If it didn't work, then all you have to do to get back in the zone is make you next meal well balanced.

What I also love about that concept is that it's ok to relax and not obsess. Just as Julie stated earlier in her own way.

I hope that this concept may help others who are struggling and maybe don't have this book available to them at the moment.

Sue, thanks for the reminders! Hmm, think I have seen these before...LOL!

Hi Zoners!

Woke up a bit hungry today even after the 2 block snack. However, my day ended at 12 blocks instead of my usual 13-15, so I'm guess it was because I did not have enough blocks. My snack was 1/2 c. cottage cheese, almonds and grapes.

Breakfast this morning - 2/3 cups slow cook oats, grapefruit, protein powder=to 3 blocks, peanut butter for my fat and 1 cup of lowfat milk. 4 blocks

Lunch plan - Mushrooom soup (I found on in the organic section that is 1 carb block per cup.) I plan on 2 cups of soup, 1 c. coleslaw (my recipe contains pinto beans ) so 1/2 carb for that, 3 oz pork left over from dinner and a 1/2 of carb of fruit. Probably strawberries. 3 blocks

Haven't planned my snacks or dinner yet. Although dinner will be either chicken or steak.

Have a great day zoners

sue, if you review your posted menu from yesterday, you'll see there are other possible contributors to your lack of overall satiety, besides just the number of blocks you ate. (I'm using the term overall satiety to refer to the fact that you are waking with varying degrees of hunger). TOXIC FAT goes into great detail about the contributors to and mechanisms of maintaining satiety. The info would be very helpful to you.

sue, I bet it was the fact that you had a bit too few blocks.

Sounds like a yummy breakfast! I was in a hurry, otherwise I would have been in the mood for some oats, myself.

Just thought I would add more to that thought...

If your meals throughout the day generally work for you, and you don't get hungry all day, then I would not play around with them. I believe that you already have done your adjusting, and have found the right food combinations for you. So, I would not alter that, just because you were hungry in the morning, ESPECIALLY if you KNOW that you didn't eat enough blocks. I would start by correcting what you KNOW was wrong, and then take it from there.

Just my opinion, but I think you would run into more problems if you start altering all of your meals, too.

Sue - I will see if I can find Toxic Fat at my library. Can't afford to purchase it at the moment, but if I can get it through the Library I will. I have not read that particular book. Maybe I am missing something. I'm guessing you are referring to my use of a baked potato at dinner last night and my smart bran at breakfast. While those may have contributed, if I follow the guidelines in ETZ, the fact that I was not hungry, with the exception of dinner due to timing, I'm not positive that they were the main culprits, but maybe combined with the fact of my blocks being off. It may be a little bit of both. I will hunt for that book. Thanks for the tip.

I was fine the rest of yesterday and actually my snack before bed we closer to 5 hours after dinner than 4 which is my usual. I was not hungry when I had my snack, however I was hungry at dinner because of the chair arrival dinner was 6 hours after lunch, which I know is too long. It could not be helped yesterday.

CC--I will consider all possible reasons, one a at a time so I can isolate the issue.

Sue, I'm so glad you posted about TOXIC FAT going into detail about satiety....I will have to get that book as I don't have that one yet.

I've been watching this thread because I have a similar problem. I feel satisfied all day...but I wake in the night hungry then I cannot get back to sleep for sometimes an hour or two because of the hunger. When I wake in the morning I'm not starving, just a little hungry which I find strange (you would think I would be ravenous after being hungry enough hours earlier to wake me from sleep!!). I eat a normal 3 block breakfast and carry on with my day with no problems.

I have tried many different bedtime snacks to try to solve this dilemma. When I eat something like cheese, fruit and nuts or cottage cheese, fruit and nuts I am able to fall asleep easily but wake 3-4 hours later with the hunger. When I eat something heavier like oatmeal, cottage cheese and nuts I have a hard time falling asleep (again for an hour or 2) because I feel so full.

It seems the only nights I can fall asleep easily and sleep right thru are the nights that I have some unfavourable carbs...like a glass of wine or microwave popcorn (Orville Reddenbacher's Smartpop 100 calorie bag). Since these are unfavourable choices I think it may slow my weight-loss and keep me OOZ.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Jana

Sue - Toxic Fat is available through the Library, so I ordered it. It will take a few days to come in.