I follow the block method, so this may or may not pertain to me, personally. But, I have often wondered how those who don't follow the block method are able to figure out how much protein that they need.

When one adjusts carb intake, one uses the hormonal chart to figure it out. But, how does one go about adjusting protein intake?

Hmmm, it would be easy to adjust if one underestimated it, and was losing LBM. But, even at that, I doubt that a significant difference can be seen in less than a month, which I believe might be too long to wait. On the other hand, what if one overestimated his/her protein needs? What would be the signs that one is getting too much protein?

So, getting to the point of the question, is there a way to tell whether protein needs are being met adequately, outside of keeping track of stats; and, if one gets too much protein, how would he/she know?

there's the hand/eye method....for meat....

That may work for a meal, but how do you know if you need a snack, how many snacks, and what size protein would you use for a snack?

Zone books say to use a dessert sized plate for snacks and do the same thing; 1/3 of the plate protein (that's protein about 1/3 of the size and thickness of the palm off your hand), the other 2/3 filled with carb, and add a dash of monounsaturated fat. The hand-eye (plate) method works very well for both meals and snacks.

BUT, how do you know if you are getting enough, or too much protein?

CC, I don't know. I also have another question. When using the plate method, what size of plate do you use? My plates are 9" because that size is easier for me to handle, but there are several different sizes of plates. Because I think there is too much variable in the plate size and how high to pile food, I measure my food.

Personally, I measure, too.

It is just something that I was thinking about these past few days, how WOULD you know if you were getting too much protein?

Or too little carb!

Hi Everyone!

You could tell if you are undereating or overeating protein and/or carb by the presence of symptoms such as (but not limited to) hunger, symptoms of ketosis (google this for more info), lack of energy, bloating, weight gain, losing large amounts of weight that results in an emaciated look, etc. Here are some answers to the various questions being posed in this thread as they would relate to the the hand-eye (plate) method of the Zone.

You can use anything close to a regular sized dinner plate for a Zone meal. The palm of your hand is the measure for protein with the hand-eye (plate) method, so whether it is a 10 inch plate or not isn't a big issue. If you go by the size and thickness of the palm of you hand, it's unlikely that you'll get too much protien.

You'll know you're not getting enough protein if you're losing LBM. Dr. Sears advises to use LBM results from a couple weeks after you start the Zone as your baseline LBM. Retained fluid from your previous eating plan can skew the initial LBM result. After a couple weeks of Zone meals and snacks you'll no longer be retaining fluid.

Satiety 4 hours after a meal will be the means for determining your carb needs. If you're not getting enough carb you'll be hungry with good mental focus. If you're getting too much carb you'll be hungry with poor mental focus. One should monitor for hunger and make the appropriate adjustment(s) regardless of which method they choose to use to put together their meals. For hunger with good focus, eat more carb. For hunger with poor focus, eat less carb.

If you're adding a dash of fat in the form of oil of a small handful of nuts to every meal, as you do with the hand- eye (plate) method, you'll be assured that you're eating enough fat.

Good Question CC, What makes it even better is that everyone's palms are different in size. My daughter is my same height, her palm is bigger and she weighs less than I do. Where I think the size of the plate could be an issue is with the amount of carbs you would be getting.

Sue - I realize all the checks and balances available on how you feel etc, but all of that takes considerable time to work out.

The other question that would go along with this is, if you can hand/eye your serving, then why if you measure is it pushed as being very critical to ONLY get the number of blocks that the calculator comes up with? When you hand/eye you really don't know exactly how many blocks you are getting or if they are balanced exactly as they would be if you measured.

Sue,

I think, using the plate method, that one would assume to be getting adequate carb intake. I don't really think ketosis would occur with too much protein, if there are adequate carbs circulating.

And, those symptoms that you mention could mean many more things than just too much protein. Lets see, bloating is a common occurrence with an overabundance of carb intake. Lack of energy is again normally associated with carb intake. Weight gain can be too much of anything. I don't see how these symptoms can be differentiated between too much protein and a carb imbalance. Perhaps you can explain that further?

And, I second the comment/question from sue. How do people that need more or less blocks actually know they are getting them, if they are not using the block method? There must be a better way than waiting until one becomes emaciated to know if one is not getting enough. And, if too much, there must be something to gauge that by!

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Cranberrycat on 04/26/2009 7:28 PM



And, those symptoms that you mention could mean many more things than just too much protein.

</div>

Yes, that's exactly what I wrote.

So, how do you answer the question? How do you know if you are getting too many blocks of protein?

Hi!

One thing is that you'll start getting fat. You've mentioned in the past that you have access to MASTERING THE ZONE. It's explained very well in that book, and also in other Zone books.

Sue, do you think it would be any trouble for you to post the explanation to this question for those who don't have access to that book?

Getting fat is a side effect of many things, not just overeating protein.

All of the other symptoms that you mentioned are also symptoms of other things.

It really peaks my curiousity, how one can be so strict about block intake, advising that one does not get too much protein, yet there is no reliable way of measuring this. Or, at least, no reliable way of knowing until it is too late. If it were me eating too much protein, I sure wouldn't want to wait until I have gained bodyfat.

Can you tell us what other symptom would be likely to occur?

Why do I feel as if you are taking me into circles here? LOL-IMO, you would make an excellent politician, Sue!

I get it that we use our hand to judge the size of the protein for our meals, but that gives me no idea how to figure out snacks, sizes of snacks, number of snacks. And, if I don't get the number of snacks right, then HOW do I know if I have overeaten protein? Remember, your answer needs to be based on the fact that I am NOT following blocks, have no knowledge of blocks, and have no desire to learn them (totally not true for me, but trying to illustrate this for those who may have this concern). So, what is the protein requirement going to tell me if I am not following the block method?

And, because this discussion is a open forum, I invite you to share the information here in the forum. My reading it in my spare time is not going to help others who have the same question, but no access to books.

SUE,
I DON'T APRECIATE IT WHEN YOU DELETE POSTS AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN RESPONDED TO.

I rarely see anyone else ever deleting their posts. If I post to anyone else, they seem to have respect for the fact that they posted and someone else responded. It is rarely a problem. But, it seems as if almost every time you and I get going on a topic, you will post something, and then you will delete it after I have posted a reply.

PLEASE, show more respect towards me and fellow zoners!

CC - I have to agree. I read this thread and your response to the post prior to it. I came back today to check on how it was going and I noticed that something was not right. I may not have jumped in on this convo much, but I was definitely following it.

So sorry that I had to post a "negative" post. I know that most forum members appreciate the friendly atmosphere that this forum offers.

I just don't understand why this has to happen. I have had discussions with other forum members, we don't always see eye to eye on everything, but we still come out as friends.

Hi!

I deleted a 2 sentence post that I felt was a repetition of my previous post. Many times I have not refreshed my page for a couple hours, and it is not apparant to me that subsequent replies have been posted. This a posting board, not a chat in real time, and things like that can happen on posting boards.

Well, unfortunately, your deletion of that post makes MY post appear very silly and strange.

And, the content of my post that I had used to respond to YOUR post would have made a lot more sense, if YOUR post was still there.

ok, so we know an error was made. Here is a suggestion to all posters. When you go back to check a forum or any place that you may post, whether here or on some other forum, please try to remember to refresh your screen. I find it helpful with email as well as forums and even just general web pages.

Getting back to the topic at hand...

Here, again is the post that I posted to Sue, asking the same question (felt it best to refresh it and bring it up to the top, so it doesn't get lost):

I get it that we use our hand to judge the size of the protein for our meals, but that gives me no idea how to figure out snacks, sizes of snacks, number of snacks. And, if I don't get the number of snacks right, then HOW do I know if I have overeaten protein? Remember, your answer needs to be based on the fact that I am NOT following blocks, have no knowledge of blocks, and have no desire to learn them (totally not true for me, but trying to illustrate this for those who may have this concern). So, what is the protein requirement going to tell me if I am not following the block method?

And, because this discussion is a open forum, I invite you to share the information here in the forum. My reading it in my spare time is not going to help others who have the same question, but no access to books.

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Sue on 04/27/2009 1:06 PM

Hi!

One thing is that you'll start getting fat. You've mentioned in the past that you have access to MASTERING THE ZONE. It's explained very well in that book, and also in other Zone books.</div>

Sue,

Perhaps you lost track of this thread?

You responded to my question with the reply above. But, I asked you to expand on that a bit further, but I haven't heard back from you.