Bob, keep in mind that your hormonal response is a response to the composition of your previous meal, not the P/C ratio calculated based on your daily total overall daily intake of protein and carbohydrate.

WOW !!!!!!! now that a lot of data, give me a little time to figure it all out . I think what I am reading is to go to
19 Blocks of protein
21 Blocks of fat
19 Blocks of carbs

OR
19 Blocks of protein
21 Blocks of fat (only for a short time) than go back to 19 Blocks of fat
I am not sure how many Blocks of carbs

What is EVOO?

I am taking omega 3 fish oil, is that the same as omegaRx?

I should add that when I first started my diet 82 lbs ago my blood preasure was 140/100, my cholesterol was 255
I am now off all med. and my new blood preasure is 110/70 and my cholesterol is 125 all because of diet and exercise.

Bob

Never mind I just looked it up
EVOO Extra Virgin Olive Oil
Sorry for the dumb question

Bob

John, I had this all figured out on a note, and I just tossed it away! LOL!

(...digging through my wastebasket...)

just looked at my math and you are right (must be typo because my numbers on paper match what you state, John).

So, 15 blocks of carb would be the upper edge of the Zone, and Bob should increase by one block somewhere in his day.

Sue is right about the hormonal response to a meal. My figures are just to illustrate how close/far one may be.

Bob, I don't know how often you have been eating, but you could divide this up this way:

3 meals: 5P-4C-5F
2 snacks: 2P-1.5C-2F
or, if you are eating smaller snacks, then divide it up as you see fit, I believe that Sue mentioned eating 1 block snacks with slightly less than a block of carb, which would work out just fine.

Not sure what to tell you regarding the fat. I think that if you aren't having issues with hunger, that you could leave the fat alone. However, if you are feeling more hungry, then increase the fat block. I know the others are saying to increase your fat blocks, but you stated you are not having issues with hunger, and so I would assume that you are likely keeping your insulin levels low enough to lose fat stores. The suggested recommendations may not necessarily add a lot of calories, but extra calories do count in the long run. If you don't need them, then don't eat them!

Hi Bob,

Excellent rreport on your blood pressure and cholesterol. :)

If you reread my post, it includes the amounts of carbohydrate blocks and fat blocks to eat according to the info Tech gave you. Your fat block count of 21 blocks falls short, it is much more than that, at the least 28 blocks of fat per day.

EVOO = Extra Virgin Olive Oil

Omega Rx is the gold standard of all ultra-refined fish oil concentrates.

Bob, if you body fat is in the ideal range now (refer to the info on the Body Fat Calculator page) and you are not ,the only change you'd need at this time is to increase to 19 blocks daily (that's 19 P, 9 C and 19 F).

[quote]
Posted By Sue on 07 Oct 2011 05:23 PM
Bob, if you body fat is in the ideal range now (refer to the info on the Body Fat Calculator page) and you are not ,the
[/quote]


typo... *and you are not hungry

Sue

I my body fat is still not in the healthy range yet, to get to that point is my goal.

This is what I was doing

Breakfast 5 blocks p, 5 blocks f and 4 blocks of carbs

no morning snack

Lunch 4 blocks p, 4 blocks f and 3 blocks of carbs

afternoon snack 4 blocks p, 4 blocks f and 3 blocks of carbs

Dinner 5 blocks p, 5 blocks f and 4 blocks of carbs

no late night snack

Total: 18 blocks p, 18 blocks f and 14 blocks of carbs


this is what I am going to I think


Breakfast 5 blocks p, 6 blocks f and 5 blocks of carbs

no morning snack

Lunch 4 blocks p, 5 blocks f and 4 blocks of carbs

afternoon snack 4 blocks p, 4 blocks f and 4 blocks of carbs

Dinner 6 blocks p, 7 blocks f and 6 blocks of carbs

no late night snack

Total: 19 blocks p, 22 blocks f and 19 blocks of carbs

Or are you telling me to go to 28 blocks of fat???

Bob

Bob, I know this is all confusing and running together...

I just want to clarify a few things, so please let me know if I am incorrect when I sum this up:

Your original post, you were doing 18p-18c-18f during your first month, and you were successfully losing scale weight. But, you felt that you could not eat all of the carbs, and so you dropped a block of carb from your meal.

So, you have been doing 18p-14c-18f and you have not been hungry, as well as you have continued to lose bodyfat.

You were concerned that you were not losing any fat in the 2nd and beginning of the 3rd months, and so you posted the question. However, in subsequent posts, you stated that you have continued to lose bodyfat while increasing your lean body mass. Therefore, it appears that you have been successful with what you were doing, although because of the increase in the lean body mass, you now require 19 blocks instead of 18 blocks.

If the above is correct, then this is my recommendation:
As long as you are not hungry, you seem to have achieved hormonal balance. I would stick with 19p-15c-19f, and would not increase the fat unless you are feeling hungry between meals or feeling the lack of energy.

Cranberrycat

You have it correct this was very confusing, thank you for hanging in there with me. Your discription of what my 2 months plus is also
correct. I will change to 19p 15f 19c for a month and see what the results are, I will let you know. I also think that all the exercise that
I do is also contributing to the body fat going down. I have another question, it is confusing when I had more body fat and more body weight
my protein requirement was lower, now that I am getting closer to an ideal condition, I would have thought that my protein requirements
would come down instead of going up. How come they go up? is this a dumb question?

Thanks
Bob

[quote]
Posted By Robert on 08 Oct 2011 09:46 AM


this is what I am going to I think


Breakfast 5 blocks p, 6 blocks f and 5 blocks of carbs

no morning snack

Lunch 4 blocks p, 5 blocks f and 4 blocks of carbs

afternoon snack 4 blocks p, 4 blocks f and 4 blocks of carbs

Dinner 6 blocks p, 7 blocks f and 6 blocks of carbs

no late night snack

Total: 19 blocks p, 22 blocks f and 19 blocks of carbs

Or are you telling me to go to 28 blocks of fat???

Bob



[/quote]

Hi Bob,

Tech's suggestion for you was to drop 1 C block and add 3 F blocks at each meal (that means 1.5 g fat in each F block). I was clarifying Tech’s suggestion with the actual block amounts. My 28 block suggestion was based on the 19 F blocks you'd normally add to 19 P blocks, plus 9 more F blocks, assuming you eat 3 meals daily and several snacks (3 meals X 3 more F blocks at each meal = 9 more F blocks). In light of your proposed 4 meal day (your 4 block snack would be considered a meal), if you choose to follow Tech’s suggestion you should add 3 more F blocks to you snack also, in order to maintain the same P/C f ratio as your meals. That would give you a total of 31 F blocks for the entire day [19 F + (3F blocks X 4 meals) = 31 F blocks]. I assume your statement about 19 P, 15 F, 19 C was a type, but just in case it’s not, note the number of fat blocks you eat should be equal to or more than the number of P blocks you eat.

One’s block requirement is based on the amount of protein needed to maintain one’s current amount of LBM at their current activity (exercise) level. The protein requirement will increase if one’s LBM and/or one’s activity level increases, regardless of one’s total weight. Simply stated, you now have more muscle so you need to eat more protein to maintain it.

Bob, thanks for confirming that for me! I just wanted to make sure I didn't get the details confused.

You will need more protein because you have gained lean body mass with your exercise (this is a good thing!)

My advice actually does not line up with what techie and sue are suggesting, and my rationale for that is that if you are feeling great without adding the extra fat, then no reason to add it. You are having excellent results, so I really don't see a reason to change, except to bump up the protein to meet your needs.

Good luck!

[quote]
Posted By cranberrycat on 08 Oct 2011 10:22 PM


My advice actually does not line up with what techie and sue are suggesting, and my rationale for that is that if you are feeling great without adding the extra fat, then no reason to add it. You are having excellent results, so I really don't see a reason to change, except to bump up the protein to meet your needs.

Good luck!
[/quote]

I haven't actually made a suggestion yet. My replies were intended to clarify the confusion over the number of fat blocks Tech suggested. :)

Ok now I am confused more than ever,
I think that tech's suggestion is 19p 31f 19c
Cranberrycat's suggestion is 19p 15f 19c
Sue suggestion is ? ? ?
My suggestion is I know that I am going to 19p, I have no idea for fat, and I think 19c

With the past 18p 18f 14c I dropped the carbs down to 14 from 18 because I just could not finish all that food
How am I going to go from 14c to 19c, if it the correct thing to do that I will try. I just don't know what the correct # are

I understand the ratio's between p and c If it is the correct thing for me to do than I will add snacks to my plan.

Or is there another suggestion

Thanks for all the help
Bob

Bob,

Tech's suggestion to drop 1 C and add 3 F to each meal gives you 19P 15C 31 F daily if you consider your 4 block snack to be a 4th meal (which it is) and you apply the 'drop1 C and add 3 F' adjustment to that snack also.



Sue's Recommendation:

I recommend the same thing as Tech, to drop 1C and add 3 F to each meal. To repeat, I consider your 4 block snack to be a meal to which you should also apply this same adjustment. This results in the daily block summary of 19P 15C 31 F. This recommendation is based on the fact that you are still above ideal body fat % and wish to lose more stored fat, and that you have also stated you would be uncomfortable eating 19 C blocks. This recommendation is appropriate for you at this time whether or not you have been on a fat loss plateau for the past 2 mos. It offers you better insulin control by increasing the P/C ratio from about .75 to 1, and also by slowing the entry of the carbohydrate into the blood stream with the extra monounsaturated dietary fat, while still providing basically the same number of total calories recommended for you by the Body Fat Calculator's 19P, 19C, 19F recommendation (1 C block contains approximately 36 calories, 3 F blocks, each containing 1.5 g fat, contain approximately 32 calories). Barry Sears has explained to me that the best way to lose excess stored fat in the Zone is to take the P/C to the "ragged edge of ketosis". This means to lower the amount of carbohydrate as much as possible without going into ketosis. The 'drop 1C add 3F to each meal' adjustment will do this, especially when most of or all of your carbohydrate is in the form of favorable vegetables.

Bob, my suggestion was 15C (not 19C), and 19F.

I recommend that you continue dropping your carbs, but I don't agree with increasing your fat beyond 19 blocks. You were successful doing what you were doing previously, and there is no need to increase your fat any further at this point, as it appears that your insulin is already in good control (based on your positive results). If you experience hunger, then I would recommend increasing the fat.

In my opinion, if you were successful without the additional fat, and you felt good and were in the Zone, then adding fat at this point is only contributing more calories.

OK Now that we have all the suggestions in and I have them correct, it looks like this:

Cranberrycat 19p 19f 15c

Tech & Sue 19p 31f 15c

I thought that getting into the ketosis stage would be a bad thing. If what Tech and Sue suggest just puts me at the
edge of ketosis, my question is if I go to 19p 31f 15c, who long should I stay on this plan?

I will go to more favorable vegetables in place of the fruit that I was using for my carbs.

Bob

Bob, no worries, my (and Tech's) suggestion will not result in ketosis. It is Barry Sears' standard recommendation that you'll find in Zone books, and is in fact the the way he has advised me to eat. I have been eating in the Zone with this very adjustment for over 16 years. BTW, I have studied and have achieved the distinction of "Certified Practitioner of Anti-inflammatory Nutrition" by the Inflammation Research Foundation and Barry Sears himself. Barry's Tech is also fully knowlegeble about the Zone. Please keep us updated and let us know how you're doing.

If I look at the plan I was on 18p 18f 14c I was at a ration of (1) looks like I have been on the edge of ketosis for the past
two months

If I go to the new plan of 19p 31f 15c that ratio is .98 not much difference than what I was on, again is this going to be ok?

I have looked at past data prior to going on the zone. I hope this helps rather than to add more confusion.

The following is the protein/carb ratio per day for the month of :

Fat intake per day in grams
Jan. .49 38
Feb. .49 33
Mar. .45 43
Apr. .50 39
May .84 48
Jun. 1.91 48
Jul. 2.36 41
Aug. 1.46 54
Sep. 1.0 on the zone 54


Bob

Bob, it should be fine. As Dr. Sears says, it takes fat to burn fat. Also, excellent choice you've made to substitute veggies for much of the fruit you've been eating. I'm also in agreement with Tech's sugestion to skip teh bread and to limit the frit to berries, expecially while you're still trying to drop the excess stored fat.

I think your current ratio is fine of 19p and 15c. My only comment is that I don't personally feel like you would need to increase your fat at this point, since you were already successful doing what you were doing without the added fat previously.

A note about the "ragged edge of ketosis", ketosis is a result of a decrease in carbs rather than pushing a ratio of protein:fat:carbs. Just think about it, if your body requires a certain amount of carbohydrate to function, it won't matter if you eat more or less fat, because you are still getting the required amount of carb. Adding fat to the equation might change the ratio, but it doesn't decrease the OVERALL amount of carb that you are taking in.

So, if you want to increase the fat, as sue and techie suggested, the added fat will basically add calories, and will not push you further towards the ragged edge of ketosis.

Bob, "edge of ketosis", means closer to it but no there yet.

OK 19p 31f 15c it is. I will do this for a month and let you know how it works out.


Tech, Sue and cranberrycat
Thanks for all the help

Bob

Happy to help. Have a great day!

Bob, This "prescription" 19p 31f 15c is just to jump start your fat loss. Once your scale starts moving again go back to your "regular precription".
You will only lose if you have it to lose.