I came across this today and thought I would share on this forum. http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cf...7640B28BFE Thoughts?

[quote:952f6e6335="zone4me"]I came across this today and thought I would share on this forum. Thoughts?[/quote:952f6e6335] This site gives good advise on diet in general, but totally botches the Zone diet concepts, and then promotes some good Zone ideas as their own. Here is a quote form their site on their own diet: [quote:952f6e6335] • Mayo Clinic Healthy Weight Pyramid (Donald Hensrud, M.D.) Premise: Studies show that both volume and weight of food play a role in feeling full. By choosing low-calorie energy-dense foods — large volume, large weight, but not many calories — you can still eat the same amount of food you're accustomed to eating and be full on fewer calories. Facts: When you consume more foods that are low in energy density, it actually becomes more difficult to consume large amounts of calories. This promotes weight loss. Coupled with improved activity habits and behavior change, this approach focuses on improving health — and weight — over the long-term. This program emphasizes foods that are low in energy density: fruits and vegetables and healthier choices within each of the five food groups. Daily physical activity is emphasized for its role in both managing weight and improving health.[/quote:952f6e6335] Here is how they portray the Zone: [quote:952f6e6335]• The Zone diet (Barry Sears, Ph.D.) Premise: In his 1995 book, Enter the Zone, Sears writes that to enter "the zone" you need to eat the proper quantities of food, in the proper "macronutrient blocks" at prescribed times. Meals should contain carbohydrates, proteins and fats in the ratio of 40 percent, 30 percent, 30 percent, respectively. A sample meal may be 2 cups of pasta (carbohydrate), a 3-ounce piece of steak (protein), and a small handful of nuts or other fats to round out the meal. Facts: Although not as restricted as other high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets, the typical zone diet contains less than 1,000 calories, which may result in an inability to meet vitamin and mineral needs for most people. The Zone diet has not been validated scientifically. There's no scientific reason for eating set combinations of foods at set times.[/quote:952f6e6335] Less than 1000 calories?????. I dare say that the Zone would have few long term adherents left alive if this were the case! And where did that 2 cups of pasta come from??? Boy, this is totally botched. The only thing they got right was 40/30/30, and that is not even a given due to individual variability. A respectable place like the Mayo Clinic should not have published this un-researched false information :x TECH, Please bring this to the attention of Dr. Sears, to request that they correct this misinformation on their website.

[quote:32ef624ab0]This program emphasizes foods that are low in energy density: fruits and vegetables and healthier choices within each of the five food groups. quote] Premise: In his 1995 book, Enter the Zone, Sears writes that to enter "the zone" you need to eat the proper quantities of food, in the proper "macronutrient blocks" at prescribed times. Meals should contain carbohydrates, proteins and fats in the ratio of 40 percent, 30 percent, 30 percent, respectively. A sample meal may be 2 cups of pasta (carbohydrate), a 3-ounce piece of steak (protein), and a small handful of nuts or other fats to round out the meal. [/quote:32ef624ab0] [quote:32ef624ab0]And where did that 2 cups of pasta come from???[/quote:32ef624ab0] This would be 8 blocks of carbs at a meal, not to mention all unfavorable... [quote:32ef624ab0]Boy, this is totally botched. The only thing they got right was 40/30/30, and that is not even a given due to individual variability. A respectable place like the Mayo Clinic should not have published this un-researched false information :x [/quote:32ef624ab0] Happens all the time, Dennis. What's really interesting is that if you take their advice to focus on high-volume , low-density carbs from fruits and vegetables while maintaining an adequate protein intake--you would get the Zone recommended protein-carb ratio between .5-1.0.

I'm new to the web site, British, and an ex Zoner who wants to give it another chance. I did lose weight before. I had only the first book to go by and using the calculations supplied came out at 9 blocks per day. (Since then the minimum for a woman has been set at 11). I stuck to the 9c, 7p, 1.5f regime laid out in that book accurately and wasn't hungry but found the constant calculation time consuming. Using recipes was useless as a cup is a meaningless measure in the UK and we either don't have some things or call them by a totally different name. I ended up defaulting to salad and soon got bored. I later bought the recipe book hoping for more choices but still got frustrated with the measures. I found this web site hoping that there would be support for other nationalities but am not finding anything. What I am finding though, is what seems a very different interpretation of the rules. Your posts talk about 30% fat. One of you mentioned it first and the other one seemed to take it as read, but how can 9c, 7p, 1.5f equate to 30% The more I read the more confused I get

[quote:050e260e48] What I am finding though, is what seems a very different interpretation of the rules. Your posts talk about 30% fat. One of you mentioned it first and the other one seemed to take it as read, but how can 9c, 7p, 1.5f equate to 30% [/quote:050e260e48] Another 1.5g fat is in assumed to be in each protein block of 7g. So in grams, it is 9c, 7p, 3f. 9c x 4cal/g = 36cal 7p x 4 cal/g = 28cal 3f x 9cal/g = 27cal. 27 fat calories / 91 total calories = 30% Keep in mind that 40/30/30 is merely a starting point. You will need to find the protein-carb ratio that works for you (by adding/dropping a carb block), and may need more fat, especially if you are an athlete or exercise quite a bit. Keep us posted on your progress and they are plenty of people here to help!

[quote:d762373339="Scott"] Keep in mind that 40/30/30 is merely a starting point. You will need to find the protein-carb ratio that works for you (by adding/dropping a carb block), and may need more fat, especially if you are an athlete or exercise quite a bit. [/quote:d762373339] More fats aren't just for athletes. Different people process food differently. Their body may not utilize all the calories taken in, in the same way as the average person. For instance, when I started the Zone diet, I was at 14% body fat. According to the body fat calculator, I need 11 blocks. However, I was losing 1-1/4 pound of my body fat per week. I thought that I would simply stabilize at what was an ideal body fat % for me. When I hit 7% body fat, I decided to up my blocks and fats. I went to 12 blocks, added more fats until my weight stabilized. This means for me that a Zone block consists of: 9C x 4 cal/g = 36 cal = 23% 7P x 4 cal/g = 28 cal = 18% 10F x 9 cal/g = 90 cal = 58% 154 total calories per block x 12 blocks = 1848 calories per day That is just enough to keep me at 10% body fat. My weight varies by less than one pound now. If I am doing a lot of physical work on a particular day, I run out of energy unless I add one more block. Another way of looking at it (I wish I had realized this at the time), I was losing about 85g of body fat per day, so I needed to add an additional 85g of fat per day to my diet to stay even. So simple! I am most likely at one extreme of the scale. To get up to 15% body fat requires me to eat an incredible amount of simple carbs, with low fat and low protein (my old diet), but If I do, I feel lousy all the time. Someone at the other extreme would be the person who claims to gain ten pounds of fat just by smelling a piece of chocolate cake --well not really, but you get the idea. The point is to keep the protein in a block constant, but don't be afraid to adjust the number of grams for a carb block up or down a bit to suit your individual requirements --and if you drop below your goal body fat %, then up the fats to stay even.

[quote:33fbd5f297="Scott"] Keep in mind that 40/30/30 is merely a starting point. You will need to find the protein-carb ratio that works for you (by adding/dropping a carb block), and may need more fat, especially if you are an athlete or exercise quite a bit. [/quote:33fbd5f297] [quote:33fbd5f297="gofish"] More fats aren't just for athletes. Different people process food differently. Their body may not utilize all the calories taken in, in the same way as the average person. [/quote:33fbd5f297] No question about that--if I gave that impression, thanks for expanding the thought. I used the word [i:33fbd5f297]especially[/i:33fbd5f297] based on the idea that some elites will get up 60% of their calories from dietary fat, and this nuance is usually the piece of the Zone that many athletes/intense exercisers overlook. However I see that you are close to 60%F as well--how much do you exercise? Are you really only on 12 blocks?

[quote:d4c5765b85="Scott"]some elites will get up 60% of their calories from dietary fat, and this nuance is usually the piece of the Zone that many athletes/intense exercisers overlook. However I see that you are close to 60%F as well--how much do you exercise? Are you really only on 12 blocks?[/quote:d4c5765b85] Scott, I think that this [b:d4c5765b85]***EXTRA FAT***[/b:d4c5765b85] point should be put into capital letters! I was not trying to rebut your post, it just looked like an opportunity to make this point stick out even more for the benefit of all. It took me almost 2 months of poking around and reading stuff before I figured out that I was supposed to add more fats to keep my body fat % up even though I am not an elite athlete. I sent in several questions to Ask Dr. Sears about my problem, but no answer. I had a lot of trouble getting registered for this forum, because I was previously registered, but the registration got messed up when the format changed, and I was so busy with other things that I could not spend the time to find out how to fix the problem. I tried raising my total block count at first, which worked, but I was concerned that I would be getting too much protein. I am active most of the day, but I don't do any formal exercise, except 40 minutes a day of light duty stretching and isometrics (Yoga). I know I should do a brisk walk of a mile or two a day, but I haven't been able to make the time for it in my schedule yet. I have been building my retirement house for the last four years (it is almost done). Occasionally I have to do some physically intensive work that is aerobic (like digging a ditch, or sanding drywall), but that is more the exception than the rule. Those are the days that I add an extra block. Most of my working is at a measured pace and not overly demanding physically (I let the tools do the hard work). I rarely break a sweat or breathe hard. Many times I spend most of the day parked in front of the computer doing research or planning. So according to the body fat calculator I only rate 11 blocks, but I figure I must be working a little harder than that if I need so much fat, so I settled on 12 blocks to keep the fat to a reasonable level. I think that most people looking into the Zone are looking for an athletic edge, or a better weight control diet --that seems to be a big focus. So us skinny prone guys that just want too live a longer and healthier life are a more rare customer, and as such have not been studied as much. Just my guess. :)

[quote:ba2edf0e1f] Scott, I think that this [b:ba2edf0e1f]***EXTRA FAT***[/b:ba2edf0e1f] point should be put into capital letters! I was not trying to rebut your post, it just looked like an opportunity to make this point stick out even more for the benefit of all. [/quote:ba2edf0e1f] My mistake--I can only interpret peoples post with my own mind--its often difficult to perceive one's point through print. [quote:ba2edf0e1f] I think that most people looking into the Zone are looking for an athletic edge, or a better weight control diet --that seems to be a big focus. So us skinny prone guys that just want too live a longer and healthier life are a more rare customer, and as such have not been studied as much. [/quote:ba2edf0e1f] Then I hope your posts continue--you bring a refreshing, objective clarity to this forum. Good luck with the house--sounds like a great project.

[quote:703b0dd25d="Scott"]Then I hope your posts continue--you bring a refreshing, objective clarity to this forum. Good luck with the house--sounds like a great project.[/quote:703b0dd25d] Thanks Scott, I learn something new every day. However, not everything I think I know is necessarily true, so it really takes a forum full of experienced folks like you and the other frequent posters to separate the wheat from the chaff. Hopefully, I will get a lot smarter with all your help and be able to pass it on to others. :wink:

[quote:a46f9e1444="gofish"] Scott, ... So according to the body fat calculator I only rate 11 blocks, but I figure I must be working a little harder than that if I need so much fat, so I settled on 12 blocks to keep the fat to a reasonable level. [/quote:a46f9e1444] gofish, Just a thought: Have you taken into consideration the minimum daily requirements which Dr Sears recommends? I have loaned my books to a friend but from memory it is 11blocks for females and 14 for males. This minimum is despite what any calculators say ( with the exception of a [b:a46f9e1444]very[/b:a46f9e1444] slight build)

[quote:5d94dfd7e7="TopBoffin"][quote:5d94dfd7e7="gofish"] Scott, ... So according to the body fat calculator I only rate 11 blocks, but I figure I must be working a little harder than that if I need so much fat, so I settled on 12 blocks to keep the fat to a reasonable level. [/quote:5d94dfd7e7] gofish, Just a thought: Have you taken into consideration the minimum daily requirements which Dr Sears recommends? I have loaned my books to a friend but from memory it is 11blocks for females and 14 for males. This minimum is despite what any calculators say ( with the exception of a [b:5d94dfd7e7]very[/b:5d94dfd7e7] slight build)[/quote:5d94dfd7e7] Hi, I don't think there is a 14 block minimum for males, but rather a suggested 11 block minimum for all adults (male and female). There would be exceptions even to this in extreme cases. Sue

Hi Sue, [quote:5d3ca9197c="Slknorr"][quote:5d3ca9197c="TopBoffin"][quote:5d3ca9197c="gofish"] Scott, ... So according to the body fat calculator I only rate 11 blocks, but I figure I must be working a little harder than that if I need so much fat, so I settled on 12 blocks to keep the fat to a reasonable level. [/quote:5d3ca9197c] gofish, Just a thought: Have you taken into consideration the minimum daily requirements which Dr Sears recommends? I have loaned my books to a friend but from memory it is 11blocks for females and 14 for males. This minimum is despite what any calculators say ( with the exception of a [b:5d3ca9197c]very[/b:5d3ca9197c] slight build)[/quote:5d3ca9197c] Hi, I don't think there is a 14 block minimum for males, but rather a suggested 11 block minimum for all adults (male and female). There would be exceptions even to this in extreme cases. Sue[/quote:5d3ca9197c] Happy to totally agree with you on this. (14 is the AVERAGE male blocks ) White Light

HI! :D