Hi, This topic is discussed in "The Omega RX Zone" (pages 144 and 145) and I found it extremely interesting. Aspirin is a blood thinner and when taken in the form of one baby aspirin daily it reduces heart attacks. Aspirin-triggered 15-epi-lipoxins are new good eicosanoids recently discovered at Harvard that are strong anti-inflammatories, the "best" of which are made from EPA. This is where fish oil comes into the picture. Dr Sears writes "If you take a baby aspirin a day and fish oil at levels recommended on my dietary program, you'll increase the production of those 15-epi-lipoxins, which can, by reducing arterial inflammation, dramatically reduce your risk of having a heart attack caused by a plaque rupture." He goes on to say "I truly believe that this advance will make heart disease as rare as it was at the beginning of the twentieth century." All my doctors recommend one baby aspirin daily to their patients for prevention of both heart attack and colon cancer. I take one baby aspirin daily and also take pharmaceutical grade fish oil (Omega RX). I thougt it would be interesting to see how many other Zoners who take pharmaceutical grade fish oil also take one baby aspirin daily. Sue

Hi, I thought I had posted a poll along with the above referenced post but I must have done it incorrectly. :roll: I'll post the poll when I figure out how to! Sue

Sue, thanks for posting the information about baby aspirin. My question: I eat according to the Zone, and take PGFO daily (10 capsules), along with Vitamins E and C, and it has helped in many ways. Lately, however, I have a running injury that includes pain in my hip. I believe inflamation is involved. So adding a baby aspirin sounds like just the ticket... However, I'm concerned about my blood being TOO thin. I gave away my copy of THE OMEGA RX ZONE, so can't check it right now. What do you think? THanks for any help! Greenteadrinker (Linda Grey)

[quote:aeb5206892="greenteadrinker"]Sue, thanks for posting the information about baby aspirin. My question: I eat according to the Zone, and take PGFO daily (10 capsules), along with Vitamins E and C, and it has helped in many ways. Lately, however, I have a running injury that includes pain in my hip. I believe inflamation is involved. So adding a baby aspirin sounds like just the ticket... However, I'm concerned about my blood being TOO thin. I gave away my copy of THE OMEGA RX ZONE, so can't check it right now. What do you think? THanks for any help! Greenteadrinker (Linda Grey)[/quote:aeb5206892] Hi Linda, I suggest you address the question to your dr. My doctors happen to advocate taking both fish oil and aspirin. The people I know who take both have not had any problems. Sue

Thanks for your very sensible reply. I'll talk to my doc. Linda

I also am concerned about too much thinning. I often add a pinky toe size of raw ginger to my smoothies because I love the taste and it is a blood thinner as well. In 'The Top 100 Zone Foods", Dr. Sears writes, "K.C. Srivastava claims that ginger is a more potent blood thinner than either garlic or onion....", also, "ginger signigicantly reduced the ability of blood to clot, working in a simular way as aspirin." Since I have no idea if I am doing too much if I consume ginger and take baby aspirin, I plan on not taking baby aspirin on days I consume ginger. Any ideas on if it is ok to take both daily? [quote:d811be3c51="greenteadrinker"]Sue, thanks for posting the information about baby aspirin. However, I'm concerned about my blood being TOO thin. (Linda Grey)[/quote:d811be3c51]

That information about ginger is SO interesting! I eat tons of ginger - both fresh (in stir-fries and teas) and the thinly sliced "sushi" ginger available in Asian shops. Also LOTs of onion and garlic... Is there a way to test how "thin" your blood is? Sorry if this is a silly question -- I don't have a medical background, and this has never been a concern before. Linda

Hi, I too, eat a lot of garlic, ginger, and a couple cups of ginger tea daily, and in addition use Omega RX and one daily baby asprin. I''ve been taking baby aspirin for 3 yrs (at times in the past have switched back and forth between daily use and twice a week use, but now use it daily). I've also been eating in the Zone, strictly, for about 8 yrs. I'm not of a medical background either, but I do know there are tests for clotting factors. I don't necessarily know that those tests would be of any use in the situations recently mentioned in this thread. BTW one of my doctors is a cardiologist/author of national renown in the health, diet, alternative medicine field. He uses a combination of traditional and alternative medicines to treat his patients, which I see as the best of both worlds. He also advocates a diet and lifestyle very close to the Zone (but more like the Mediterranean Diet), and wholeheartedly approves of my choice to be in the Zone. He's voiced no concerns about my blood being too thin, and he knows my dietary and supplementation habits. The only cautions I've been informed of are with surgery. I've been advised to cut aspirin down to two a week for a couple weeks prior to any major surgery. I had no bleeding problems with the surgeries I've had. In the case of my brain surgery, I was instructed to stop aspirin completely for 2 weeks prior to surgery. Sue

My father in law had surgery the other day and interestingly, they had him stop his FO 2 weeks before due to the blood thinning it allows for. Jim

[quote:ce7644c309="jfsoonipi"]My father in law had surgery the other day and interestingly, they had him stop his FO 2 weeks before due to the blood thinning it allows for. Jim[/quote:ce7644c309] Hi, Interesting , because I specifically asked about it, and the dr's (as you know I've had numerous surgeries with different drs. in the last 3 yrs) said that Vitamin E and aspirin(along with a huge list of herbs and medications) are of concern and must be stopped prior to surgery in regards to normal clotting for surgery, but fish oil is not. They had no concern about my continued use of FO pre-surgery. Sue

Hi Susie.. Drat...I didn't mean it honest! As my father in laews surgery occured at a regional hospital known mainly for it's advanced cardiac surgery, I would assume that these folks must have some indication as to the fact that FO thins the blood. A friend also recently went in to have some gum work done (surgery) and even that Dr. told him to Knix the FO at least a week ahead of time. I'm not arguing with ya....just presenting some recent examples. jf

Hey Jimmy! [quote:b6d1c91a11="jfsoonipi"]As my father in laews surgery occured at a regional hospital known mainly for it's advanced cardiac surgery, I would assume that these folks must have some indication as to the fact that FO thins the blood. A friend also recently went in to have some gum work done (surgery) and even that Dr. told him to Knix the FO at least a week ahead of time. I'm not arguing with ya....just presenting some recent examples. jf[/quote:b6d1c91a11] Or one could assume those individuals may not be quite as educated regarding pharmacutical grade FO as they could be so are overly cautious with their recommendations. One could assume many things for that matter. Anyway, I don't know if we can really know for sure which recommmendations are the most appropriate, but that was my experience. BTW, one of the sources of my recommendations was my surgeon at a highly esteemed breast center at a university teaching hospital and medical center, who also happens to be the director of the breast center, as well as a professor at the medical school there. As for "recent", no, my surgeries were not as recent as your father-in-law's this week, but the last 3 times I had surgery and was told I did not have to stop FO prior were in, May, June, and August of this year. Sue

Hi, This issue is covered on pages 85 and 86 of "The Omega RX Zone". Reading those pages should alleviate fears anyone may have about fish oil and bleeding times. Sue

A couple thouhts on the matter as I've have struggled with the recommendation to stop omega-3 intake prior to surgery. 1) If the goal of omega-3 supplementation is to achieve lower plasma phospholipid AA/EPA levels to a healthy level (1.5 to 3/1), do people who have low AA/EPA ratios (such as the Japanese) stop eating fish or start increasing their insulin levels prior to surgery for the fear of increased risk of bleeding? 2) Although studies have supported increased bleeding times (1), others have not, even when combined with aspirin (2), (3). Another question to ponder. Considering the average AA/EPA ratio of the American population is 12:1, one would expect an increase in bleeding time when comparing to the sludge blood most of the population has--so is increased bleeding time such a bad thing? (1) Schmidt EB, et al "Dose-response studies on the effect of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids on lipids and haemostasis" Thromb Haemost 1990 Feb 19; 63(1); 1-5 (2) Harris WS, et al "Dietary fish oils and blood lipids" Current Opinions in Lipidology 1996 Feb; 7(1):3-7 (3) Eritsland J, et al "Long-term effects of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids on haemostatic variables and bleeding times in patients with coronary artery disease" Blood Coagul Fibrinolysis 1995 Feb;6(1); 17-22

Hi, Although much discussion has already taken place, in this thread and other, regardiing aspirin and FO, did anyone happen to see the most recent "Ask Dr.Sears" question? Sue

thanks. it's worth a look. -C.

Sue - I'm reading the Omega RX Zone and p 144 sent me searching the forum to see if taking a baby aspirin + fish oil every day is still valid. Do you still take it?

I also found this 2011 quote from Dr. Sears in the Q&A at

http://www.zonediet.com/blog/2011/0...ry-events/ -

"The supplements that I take are high dose fish oil (7.5 grams of EPA and DHA per day) and about 16,000 ORAC units of purified polyphenols in addition to following an anti-inflammatory diet. My AA/EPA remains pretty steady at 1.5. As along as I maintain that AA/EPA ratio, I don’t take a baby aspirin.".


[quote]
Posted By Sue on 17 Sep 2003 06:28 PM
Hi,

This topic is discussed in "The Omega RX Zone" (pages 144 and 145) and I found it extremely interesting. Aspirin is a blood thinner and when taken in the form of one baby aspirin daily it reduces heart attacks. Aspirin-triggered 15-epi-lipoxins are new good eicosanoids recently discovered at Harvard that are strong anti-inflammatories, the "best" of which are made from EPA. This is where fish oil comes into the picture. Dr Sears writes "If you take a baby aspirin a day and fish oil at levels recommended on my dietary program, you'll increase the production of those 15-epi-lipoxins, which can, by reducing arterial inflammation, dramatically reduce your risk of having a heart attack caused by a plaque rupture." He goes on to say "I truly believe that this advance will make heart disease as rare as it was at the beginning of the twentieth century."

All my doctors recommend one baby aspirin daily to their patients for prevention of both heart attack and colon cancer. I take one baby aspirin daily and also take pharmaceutical grade fish oil (Omega RX).

I thougt it would be interesting to see how many other Zoners who take pharmaceutical grade fish oil also take one baby aspirin daily.

Sue
[/quote]

Yes, I do, in fact I take only 1/2 baby aspirin daily. That's all it actually takes. I still rember when Dr Sears first told me about it in a phone conversation, soon after it was discovered. He'd said you are one of only a few people in the world who now know this information. I thouhht that was very cool!

Larry, this is not something that I have done in the past, but I stumbled across the chapter that discusses it while I was researching the GLA issue that we discussed on another thread. I am going to read into it more, and possibly consider adding a baby aspirin.

A few years back, another forum member had recommended it to me, but basically moreso from a cardiology standpoint. Doctors have been recommending it as a preventative measure for years, but mostly to those who hold a higher cardiovascular risk.

I have been reading a book where a doctor (UK) delves deep into all studies that supposedly ties LDL, HDL, Total Cholesterol to CVD (Heart Disease) and to total mortality (all cause). He is making a GREAT case showing that not one study has proven any ties of any level of cholesterol except too low a value being related to any cause of Heart Disease or mortality. He is finding in study after study that because of the profits from statins by the 5 big drug manufacturers, that the more they are shown proof of no cause, the more they fight against it and change the hypothesis. He calls it ad-hoc hypothesis. With no study, no proof, no scientific eveidence to back up any of it. It is a real eye opening objective look into all of the studies and the changing hypothesis regarding cholesterol and it s link (rather lack of) to any CVD (Heart Disease). Except for levels that are to low, blow 4.0 mmol-l (that's below 150 mg/dl in US terms.) He's finding that the ideal range of ideal Total Cholesterol from all of the studies is in the range of 5.0 mmol/l to 6.6 mmol/l or about average of 5.8 mmol/l (that's about 224 mg/dl in USA terms.) The book is: " The Great Cholesterol Con" by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick.

Hi John, a

Is this info you posted meant to dispute the fact that plaque ruptures can cause heart attacks? If not, I must be missing what you're getting at in regard to this thread.

Oops! I am in trouble! My total cholesterol has always been VERY low, definitely under 150 (and my LDL under 75). LOL

I think the intent of John's post is that the statin drug companies are trying to show evidence that their drugs work, while the studies are not necessarily showing that there is any benefit at all.

Plaque build up (and ruptures) have nothing to do with cholesterol.
So, no, I am not saying that at all.
There has been no" proven" link that excessive cholesterol,
in fact most studies show that lower CVD with higher cholesterol,
including the GOLD Standard studies.
And if you look at the statements made after each study disproves, though they keep trying to prove,
they have not been successful, after each they change the hypothesis or find a reason to explain the apparent paradox.
However, their reason, each one for each paradox, is not based on any study or any scientific proof.
.
No plaque can build up, and it is the rupture of that can cause a CVD incident or a stroke, depending.
However, it is not cholesterol.
Our liver constantly makes cholesterol to keep the levels up,
no matter how much we try to reduce ingesting foods to reduce.
.
Hence, the drug manufacturers believe that everyone should be on statins.
Its frightening, all for the sake of profits.

March 19, 2012 by Dr. Barry Sears

It is amazing that only after the patent expiration of the best-selling statin drug of all time (i.e. Lipitor) that the FDA finally admitted that maybe the drug class that many physicians wanted to put into the drinking water might have some problems after all (1). In particular, the FDA issued a warning that use of statins increases the risk of memory loss and diabetes. The FDA said the risk of diabetes is “small;” however, they were playing fast and loose with the data. This is because the weaker the statin, the less the side-effect profile. The stronger (and better selling) the statin, the greater the side effects are (like diabetes and memory loss). You would think that after having Americans spend more than $50 billion in statin sales that the FDA would have asked these safety questions earlier.

How could statins cause memory loss and diabetes? It has been known for nearly 20 years that statins are the only drug that increase the levels of arachidonic acid (AA) by stimulating the enzyme delta 5-desaturase (2-4). This means greater cellular inflammation that leads to insulin resistance (thus increasing diabetes) and disturbances in signaling mechanisms in nerve cells (thus decreasing memory). I guarantee that no physician knows these facts because the drug companies had no reason to lose a potential sale to disclose that information. Apparently the FDA agreed with the drug companies, since that relevant information was never mentioned in any of the side-effect profiles until now.

The drug industry developed a great marketing pitch for statins: “If your cholesterol is high, you are going to die”. Unfortunately, the data never supported that spiffy slogan. Epidemiological studies do indicate that if your cholesterol levels are high and you are less than 50 years of age, then there is an increased risk for mortality. After age 50, that risk of increased mortality with high cholesterol disappears (5).

Furthermore, keep in mind that statins were not the first drugs to lower cholesterol. There were many other drugs before the statins, but they had the unfortunate side-effect of increasing mortality. It was only with use of the first statin drugs that decreased mortality was finally shown in those having had a prior heart attack. This is called secondary prevention trial. Aspirin and fish oil are also effective in secondary prevention trials, but neither of those interventions reduces cholesterol (6). However, in primary prevention trials (done with people with no history of heart attacks), statins aren’t very good. This is estimated by looking at a number known as “number needed to treat” or NNT. This number indicates how many people have to take a drug to prevent a single heart attack. With the newest statins, the NNT is usually 2 percent. That means you have to treat 100 people to prevent two heart attacks. Unfortunately you have no idea who those two people are, which means the other 98 people will have a lifetime of side effects. One of those side effects is developing diabetes, which occurs in about 1 percent of the patients (forget the other side effects, such as memory loss, muscle fatigue, etc). Who that one person is out of 100 who will develop diabetes is also unknown. Therefore your chances of reducing a heart attack are significantly cut by the likelihood of increasing your chances of developing diabetes. Some wonder drug!

Finally, defenders of statins for the primary prevention of heart disease point to the recent JUPITER trial (7). This clinical trial used people that had normal levels of LDL cholesterol, but very high levels of C-reactive protein (CRP). These people were already inflamed. It should be noted that the drug company that markets the statin drug used in the study funded this particular study. In fact, the government had no interest in the trial. Maybe government officials knew from previous statin trials that in people with normal LDL cholesterol levels and normal levels of CRP that statins had absolutely no benefit in reducing future heart attacks (8). Nonetheless in this small subsection of the population (more than 80 percent of the screened patients were rejected), there was a reduction in first-time heart attacks. But since the patients were highly inflamed to begin with, this means that aspirin or fish oil would probably have given the same result had the same population been tested (9,10). In fact, the JELIS study in Japan confirmed this hypothesis (11). Using the same number of patients, with high cholesterol and lows levels of inflammation (as measured by the AA/EPA ratio), it was demonstrated that those patients given more EPA to lower the AA/EPA ratio had significant reduction in future cardiovascular events. I will make a leap of faith that if the population in the JELIS study was as inflamed as that in the JUPITER study, the results with omega-3 fatty acids would have been even more dramatic.

Lost in all this marketing hype is what actually causes LDL cholesterol to increase in the first place. The answer was known in the 1970s. It’s high levels of insulin (12). This is because insulin activates the same enzyme that statins inhibit. Call me crazy, but it seems to make more sense to lower insulin by the diet rather than taking statins for a lifetime if your goal is to live longer. The best way to lower insulin is the anti-inflammatory Zone Diet coupled with enough fish oil to reduce the AA/EPA ratio to the in the Japanese population range. That’s just good science, not good marketing.

References
1.Harris G. “Safety alerts cite cholesterol drugs’ side effects.” New York Times, Feb 28. (2012)
2.Hrboticky N, Tang L, Zimmer B, Lux I, Weber PC. “Lovastatin increases arachidonic acid levels and stimulates thromboxane synthesis in human liver and monocytic cell lines. J Clin Invest 93: 195-203 (1994)
3.Rise P, Pazzucconi F, Sirtori CR, and Galli C. “Statins enhance arachidonic acid synthesis in hypercholesterolemic patients.”
4.Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis 11:88-94 (2001)
5.Rise P, Ghezzi S, and Galli C. “Relative potencies of statins in reducing cholesterol synthesis and enhancing linoleic acid metabolism.” Eur J Pharmacol 467:73-75 (2003)
6.Anderson KM, Castelli WP, and Levy D. “Cholesterol and mortality. 30 years of follow-up from the Framingham study.” JAMA 1987 257:2176-2180 (1987)
7.Baigent C, Blackwell L, Collins R, Emberson J, Godwin J, Peto R, Buring J, Hennekens C, Kearney P, Meade T, Patrono C, Roncaglioni MC, and Zanchetti A. “Aspirin in the primary and secondary prevention of vascular disease: collaborative meta-analysis of individual participant data from randomised trials.” Lancet 373:1849-1860 (2009)
8.Gruppo Italiano per lo Studio della Sopravvivenza nell’Infarto miocardico. “Dietary supplementation with n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and vitamin E after myocardial infarction: results of the GISSI-Prevenzione trial.” Lancet 354:447-455 (1999)
9.Wang C, Harris WS, Chung M, Lichtenstein AH, Balk EM, Kupelnick B, Jordan HS, and Lau J. “n-3 Fatty acids from fish or fish-oil supplements, but not alpha-linolenic acid, benefit cardiovascular disease outcomes in primary- and secondary-prevention studies: a systematic review.” Am J Clin Nutr 84:5-17 (2006)
10.Ridker PM, Danielson E, Fonseca FA, Genest J, Gotto AM, Kastelein JJ, Koenig W, Libby P, Lorenzatti AJ, MacFadyen JG, Nordestgaard BG, Shepherd J, Willerson JT, and Glynn RJ. “Rosuvastatin to prevent vascular events in men and women with elevated C-reactive protein.” N Engl J Med 359:2195-2207 (2008)
11.Ridker PM, Rifai N, Clearfield M, Downs JR, Weis SE, Miles JS, and Gotto AM. “Measurement of C-reactive protein for the targeting of statin therapy in the primary prevention of acute coronary events.” N Engl J Med 344:1959-1965 (2001)
12.Yokoyama M, Origasa H, Matsuzaki M, Matsuzawa Y, Saito Y, Ishikawa Y, Oikawa S, Sasaki J, Hishida H, Itakura H, Kita T, Kitabatake A, Nakaya N, Sakata T, Shimada K, and Shirato K. “Effects of eicosapentaenoic acid on major coronary events in hypercholesterolaemic patients (JELIS): a randomised open-label, blinded endpoint analysis.” Lancet 369:1090-1098 (2007)
13.Lakshmanan MR, Nepokroeff CM, Ness GC, Dugan RE, and; Porter JW. “Stimulation by insulin of rat liver hydroxy-β-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase and cholesterol-synthesizing activities.” Biochem Biophys Res Commun 50:704-710 (1973)

Hi John,

It seems I was not clear in my previous post to you. I was trying to (and I' m still trying to) figure out your point in posting that info in this thread about aspirin and fish oil producing these formerly unknown epi-lipoxins.