Sue posted a question a few days ago with a question out to all members. However, the entire thread has disappeared.

So, since I had posted a reply on that thread, I was also interested in hearing more about who has had the test, why did you, or why not?

So, here is the question that Sue had asked (not her exact quote):

Who has had the SIP done? (the AA/EPA test)

Yes Cranberry Cat,

I was curious about that too and thought it was my imagination the whole thing just disappeared. Did it ?

Actually I thought THIS was it and I had forgotten where it was !

I'm very curous if this test is commonly done by [ relatively ] "new" Zoners. When I first became involved the "litmius" tests were thre TG/HDL lipid ratio and fasting insulin and were so for some time.

I can remember how thrilled I was that my lipid tests and insulin were right in the "Zone sweet spot" as prescribed by our leader the good doctor.

I was also to find I became more and more interested in "blood chemistry" and the profound effect of one's food injestion on it.

I found and continue to find that Sears' admoniton of "treating food just as carefully and as measured as you would a prescribed drug" is so remarkably appropriate !

Would you just "shovel any drug you found in someone's medecine cabinet down your throat because it LOOKED attatractive, or SMELLED attractive,or, TASTED GOOD,or, it was a "deal to SUPERSIZE ?


Although I thought the Zone concepts espoused by Dr.Sears made a lot of sense in unique ways and he was certainly at the leading edge in that area - I became really impressed as years passed and the fundamental broad principles of The Zone Eating Plan were being adopted by many others both - with, and without credit, to Dr.Sears. Additionally and increasingly as medical research moved forward many of his speculations about dietary relationships were, indeed, found to be accurate.

In the past I was surprised to find how few people I encountered that were following the Zone Diet bothered to have their blood lipid levels tested to see definitively if the Zone Plan was working for them ! Moreover - more often than not when they DID - they didn't bother to have a "fasting insulin" screening added and/or even bother to calculate their TG/HDL ratio with the figures SITTING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM !

[ I seem to STILL find this ! ]

I'm suspecting that more people than we are aware of and/or more people that don;t want to admit it are attracted to The Zone on the expectation it's "the final cure" for "weight loss" and - like all the other diets they have tried, lose some weight initially, and when they hit the "weight loss barrier" give up ane wander off into the "black forrest of dieting" - never to be heard from again.

I put out a thread attempting to attract "Zoners" from the "greater Boston area" which extends into southern New Hampshire and Maine and northern Rhode Island which I thought would have a significant response to have a "get together" - maybe even a "mini convention" if there was enough interest - and I've had NO RESPONSE.

Maybe there's a lot of successful Zoners who just go along quietly doing their "Zone thing" and aren't interested at all in the forums in particular, the Zone web site in general, and, couldn't be bothered to go so far as to even have a blood lipid test let alone something as expensive as the AA/DHA [ SIP test] ?

Then I wonder all the more if they were to have one[ SIP test] relatively soon after starting in on The Zone - wouldn't they want to have another "follow up" to determine they are going in the right direction with their diet and fish oil etc ?

Now it's starting to get quite expensive for the "casual dieter" who's used to picking up the latest copy of Woman's Week on their way through the checkout counter for a buck or two and the NEW WONDER DIET in EVERY ISSUE - that DOESN'T requere some "fancy blood test " [ as in a 'YYYYcCCCCCCCChHHHHy' blood test]

... from the "MOST CURIOUS" Zone

E.Wally

Interesting picture, E.Wally!

Well, to answer the question (as I had done in a previous thread), I have not done the SIP (or AA/EPA).

This is why:

When I first considered taking fish oil, I had finished reading through MTZ. I realized the importance of doing the other tests, and when I did them, they were fine. I even had this "conversation" with myself as to whether or not it even made sense to do the fish oil. Well, I had picked up a copy of ORxZ, and realized that it WAS important for the sake of detecting silent inflammation.

My original labs: TG/HDL and fasting insulin were "reasonable", but appeared as if they could improve even more. Mind you, I was already eating in the Zone. I found the "ESR" (eicosanoid status report) in there. It was then that I realized that I could use my TG/HDL and fasting insulin along with the ESR to adjust the dose of fish oil.

I realize that Sears "highly recommends" the SIP. However, it is a very expensive test, and I think that the other tools are just as useful. If your TG/HDL is 1, your fasting insulin is 5, and you have good results from answering the questions on the ESR, then there is no reason to assume that your AA/EPA isn't in the appropriate range of 1.5-3.

I suppose some could argue that you may be producing too many GOOD eicosanoids, and that the other blood tests will not tell you that. However, the ESR WILL detect it.

Elias,

I seem to completely agree with you. As I mentioned, when I found my way into The Zone way of nutrition the TG/HDL and fasting insulin tests were the "gold standard". As you point out a while later came the ORxZ and the "ESR" - and - like you between all my tests and more importantly "ratios" and the ESR I came to the conclusion I was plenty healthy and as "dead center" in The Zone as one could be.

I have had my lipid levels taken every 6 months for about 10 years - whether I like it or not, and, well, - actually - DO like it ! Because I have gotten to a place whereby the "readings" are exactly where you want them and as far as I'm concerned "balancing" my food injestion takes NO EFFORT at all. What's not to like about that ?

It also seems from my ESR that everything is fine there too. On top of that I happened to encounter a very large and extensive independent study of fish oil consumption and health benefits and it just so happened that the dosage I am taking was dead center in the range of effective dosages.

I certainly would be curious to see what my SIP revealed but it seems there's a lot of other things I could be doing with $300 - $600 that would offer greater health benefits - such as - a membership in a health club !

... from the "END" Zone

E.Wally

ewally@verizon.net

I would agree. If the test wasn't so darned expensive, and more labs were doing it, and if insurance would pick it up, well, there would be no reason NOT to do it. But, it is just not afforable enough to do, only to learn what you already knew by doing the other tests. Heck, it isn't even a covered expense in my flex plan at work!

I find it interesting that no one else has popped into this discussion.

So, I know that this was Sue's and Cranberry's idea, but I would also like to know, who has or hasn't had the SIP done? Why or why not?

No judgements here, just curious!

Sue,

It IS TRUE, you can't determine the AA or EPA levels from the other tests. The other tests do not test that.

BUT, from all of the other data that is much more easy to come by, one can make a reasonable determination regarding their level of inflammation, their risk for chronic disease, their level of wellness.

While it may be true that one can still have an elevated AA and and AA/EPA out of the ideal range, the possibility of this happening is HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

In order for this test to truly become a "gold standard" test, then there needs to be proof beyond a doubt that a good number of people are being misdiagnosed as being "healthy" by using the other markers.

Or, has this research already been done?

For those who might have questions or confusion about the testing info being presented in this thread, in Chapter 4 "Testing for Silent Inflammation" in the book "Anti-Inflammation Zone" Barry Sears details the various tests and the degree of precision of each in regard to silent inflammation.

If you don't know the percentage of the population that this occurs, then you really don't have an accurate picture of how "true" it is.

You and I discussed your SIP results in email. I don't want to discuss your personal results in this public forum, unless you are in agreement with that.

I believe that Sears has been talking about "silent inflammation" long before the SIP was available. And, without the SIP, he used the TG/HDL, the fasting insulin, the CEA, and he wrote the ESR, to determine the level and degree of inflammation, and to help with fish oil dosing.

The SIP is out there, and he does call it the "gold standard", but unless the price comes down on the test, and until OTHERS recognize it as a "gold standard" test, it is really not affordable for a large number of people. And, quite possibly not even accessible to those in other countries (or even in our country, depending on where you live).

So, what would they rely on, if they are unable to rely on the SIP?

It is unfortunate that there hasn't been a lot of response from the other forum members on this thread. Which leads me to believe that others have not done the test. I think it would have been useful to have known why they have not done these tests, and the barriers that keep them from doing it.

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Cranberrycat on 08/21/2008 12:34 PM

If you don't know the percentage of the population that this occurs, then you really don't have an accurate picture of how "true" it is.

You and I discussed your SIP results in email. I don't want to discuss your personal results in this public forum, unless you are in agreement with that.

I believe that Sears has been talking about "silent inflammation" long before the SIP was available. And, without the SIP, he used the TG/HDL, the fasting insulin, the CEA, and he wrote the ESR, to determine the level and degree of inflammation, and to help with fish oil dosing.

The SIP is out there, and he does call it the "gold standard", but unless the price comes down on the test, and until OTHERS recognize it as a "gold standard" test, it is really not affordable for a large number of people. And, quite possibly not even accessible to those in other countries (or even in our country, depending on where you live).

So, what would they rely on, if they are unable to rely on the SIP?

It is unfortunate that there hasn't been a lot of response from the other forum members on this thread. Which leads me to believe that others have not done the test. I think it would have been useful to have known why they have not done these tests, and the barriers that keep them from doing it.
</div>





Hi Cran!



I assume that part of this quoted material is directed at me.



I haven't exchanged email with you for a year. My old SIP results you refer to were posted here, were excellent, and are no secret. I'm over and out on this one. That chapter I referred to in the book says it all.



Have a good day in the Zone!

Sue,

Since you and I are basically the only ones participating here (outside of Elias and E.Wally), then you assumed correctly.

I was hoping that you would address your SIP results, specifically.

Because not many of the other forum members have any knowledge about your SIP history, perhaps you could share that. I didn't want to blurt it out, if it was something that was only to be shared between you and me.

In any case, since you seem to be ok with discussing your results on the forum, could you post your results?

I was just noting that you had referred to your elevated levels of inflammation a few posts earlier in this thread, but I am having trouble remembering whether or not your results were that bad. Personally, I believe that I had the impression that your results were very good. But, perhaps I am remembering incorrectly.

So, maybe you could share just a bit more, and explain how they show elevated levels of inflammation?

[quote]Posted By Sue on 08/21/2008 7:59 AM

You can't determine a person's AA level, or EPA, or the ratio of the two, from other tests. You can have have excellent readings on the other blood lipid tests, plus a great fasting insulin test result, plus an ESR that looks good, plus be at an ideal body fat %, and still have elevated AA, AA/EPA out of the ideal range, etc.
[/quote]

Sue, where is this information? What are the stats?

I really think that if all of the other markers are in the right ballpark, then it should follow that the AA/EPA would be in balance, too. At least, as a Zoner, it should!

If you are a zoner just starting out, the SIP could tell you some things about your state of inflammation. But, what are you going to do about it? LIVE THE ZONE LIFESTYLE! Either way you test it, the solution is the same. And, if one follows the Zone Lifestyle, then one should NOT expect the SIP to be out of balance.

That is why I think that there is no need to do the SIP. Because, it SHOULD NOT be out of whack, if we are doing what we should be doing to be in the Zone.

I've not had it done. My present MD is stuck on the regular parameters of blood test results and wouldn't change treatment based on the SIP test. My wife's and my numbers are elevated, but the ratios are all good. MD still insists on the statins.

How do you find an MD who enthusiastically supports OmegaRx zone?

Hi!

If you contact Zone Labs they may be able to provide the names of Zone knowledgeable doctors in your area.

Sue, did you miss my post again?

Yes, I have done the SIP when it first became available a couple years ago. Basically you call and sign up. A technician comes to you and draws your blood and they send it in. Soon after you get the results.

I chose to do it so I would have a baseline for the future. I do not take any supplements or fish oil or that sort of thing. So if something should change in the future, I now have a base.

The results are given to you in this order (copying right from my result page) - these are my results:

Total Omega-3: 12.2
EPA: 3.1
DHA: 7.0
ALA: 0.2
DPA:1.8
EPA + DHA: 10.1
AA/EPA Ratio: 4.5
Omega 6 Total: 44.2
AA: 14.0
DGLA: 4.8
GLA: 0.1
Omega 3/omega 6 ratio: 0.3
omega 6/omega 3 ratio: 3.6

I'm glad I did it. There were no surprises in the test. I do now know I am a bit off optimal on my AA/EPA ratio. Not quite sure what I'll do about other than just eat more appropriately

They do not give you your cholesterol. I had that done through my insurance. If you are curious, my TG/HDL ratio = .98

Hope that helps answer your question.

What purpose would the SIP serve, if not taking fish oil? Can these values be adjusted simply by eating in the Zone? I imagine that some can, but it is hard to get enough EPA and DHA without eating tons of fish (and putting yourself at risk of consuming carcinogens).

I'm a data "junkie" and I've got my annual physical coming up 1 December. I'll ask for the SIP and show him why. TBC.<img src='desktopmodules/ntforums/images/emoticons/smile.gif' height='20' width='20' border='0' title='Smile' align='absmiddle'>