Hello, As many of you know i had Anorexia/Bulimia and have medical problems due to it i was wondering if dueing the Zone is going to improve my Heart condition (pains in the heart everyday) and other things related to it would it be possible if doing zone long term could actually HELP it?? Thanks Andrew

Andrew, with an excellent name like yours I think anything is possible. Below are my notes on anorexia. Bulimia is closely related in its physiology. It's important to note that the notes below are just a theory based on the existing scientific evidence. While most of my posts are based on experience I have never dealt with anorexic patients. Still I hope you find my notes useful in your understanding of how the zone diet and lifestyle might help with anorexia. I wish you the best of luck and the best of health. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh Anorexia I had been researching various neurological illnesses for some time when I happened to watch a program interviewing various patients suffering from anorexia nervosa. I was struck with the similarities between anorexia, schizophrenia (voices in the head) and depression (which is linked to anorexia). After some study I believe I have come up with one explanation for the cause of this disease and some possibilities for treatment. The key to Anorexia would appear to be a lack of serotonin the calming, feel good hormone in the brain. (It has been shown that in patients with anorexia serotonin 2A receptors have decreased activity. Also drugs which raise activity levels of serotonin like Prozac have been found to be effective in reducing the symptoms of anorexia and particularly in preventing relapse in recovered patients. This lack of serotonin would also explain the very strong link between anorexia and depression since depression is almost certainly due to a lack of serotonin in the brain.) This lack of serotonin seems to be coupled with an excess of dopamine the action or motivation hormone in the brain. Anorexia is linked to impulsivity. Anorexics also tend to be highly motivated individuals who are often seen as perfectionists - all signs of excess levels of dopamine. The obsessive compulsive disorder that has been found to be linked to anorexia is also almost certainly caused by excess levels of dopamine. Originally dopamine helped us to survive by increasing pattern recognition. Basically pattern recognition helps you to fulfil man's three primary urges: Food, fight or flight and procreation. When a caveman was hungry the pain from hunger would lead to the release of dopamine. Dopamine would help him search out and recognize sources of food more effectively (increased pattern recognition). Dopamine would also help him stay motivated on the task till he caught the food. When he began to eat that food this would lead to the release of serotonin the feel good hormone helping him to feel more calm and reduce the effects of dopamine. The anorexic patient almost certainly has a deranged form of pattern recognition. The anorexic sees the avoidance of food as a desirable outcome. This condition was probably originally brought about due to a poor balance of eicosanoids, the "master" hormones in the body. A lower intake of calories would originally result in reduced levels of insulin. Lower levels of insulin could increase levels of the good eicosanoid PGE1 resulting in more the efficient release of serotonin. Since serotonin would almost certainly relieve the anxiety related to anorexia the patient could then begin relating avoiding food with the relief from anxiety long after the sense of relief has stopped. Over time poor nutrition would result in chronically low levels of serotonin because serotonin is made from the amino acid tryptophan. Tryptophan is obtained from protein in the diet. It's interesting to note that this deranged form of pattern recognition is the most likely cause of most addictions. An intial rise of serotonin is related to intitial experiences with the addiction then subsequent experiences result in an absence or very low levels of serotonin increase. Unfortunately by this time the negative pattern recognition is set and as dopamine levels rise the addict (or anorexic) feels a continually increasing desire to fulfil the addiction. But the addiction often no longer releases serotonin and often increases dopamine levels. So the addiction cycle is perpetuated. Just like the anorexic what is needed is the release of serotonin. This could explain why drugs like prozac which increase serotonin levels in the brain (by inhibiting their reuptake) can be so effective in treating anorexia and particulary in preventing recovered anorexic patients from relapsing. This is consistent with the theory that reduced intake of tryptophan in the anorexic patient's diet (tryptophan is the major building block of serotonin) would make it more difficult to treat anorexia with a drug like prozac which simply increases the activity of the existing serotonin in the brain - it does not actually increase production of serotonin. So the recovered anorexic eating an adequate intake of tryptophan would probably find prozac more effective. This also suggests that supplementing tryptophan (or it's cousin 5-hydoxyl-tryptophan - caution advised) may be worth serious consideration for the anorexic patient. So the avoidance of food most likely makes it even more difficult for the anorexic to produce adequate serotonin leading to a steady downward spiral. Elevated levels of a bad eicosanoid called interleukin 1beta (IL-1B) are implicated in both anorexia and anxiety or panic disorders. IL-1B is a controller of your body's immune response to physical stress. One Swedish study found 74% of women with anorexia or bulimia had developed the antibodies also found in other autoimmune diseases like lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and MS. Again MS is strongly linked to depression and bad eicosanoids (PGE2 in particular which reduces the release of serotonin). This link to levels of a bad eicosanoid is interesting because high levels of bad eicosanoids lead to lower production and release of the feel good, calming hormone serotonin. And you can reduce levels of bad eicosanoids and increase levels of good eicosanoids with diet and lifestyle changes (see the book From Depression to glorious health available for free download from www.geocities.com/glorioushealth ) This book describes diet, lifestyle, emotional therapy and supplements all designed to increase the production of serotonin and improve general health. The possibility that anorexia is linked to schizophrenia seems quite high. Many anorexics hear voices similar to the schizophrenic patient. The schizophrenic patient has a genetic problem which leads to the body removing excessive eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) from the production cycle and creates difficulties in assimilating that EPA into the cell membrane. This is significant because EPA is the major building block of good eicosanoids. And good eicosanoids regulate the release of neurotransmitters like serotonin. Since treatment with large doses of fish oil (preferably pharmaceutical grade fish oil) can be quite effective in the treatment of schizophrenia this therapy would certainly be worth considering in the anorexic patient. Also supplementation with fish oil should be considered with all related family members since anorexia is genetically related (as is schizophrenia). (My notes on schizophrenia are also available free at the website www.geocities.com/glorioushealth

Thank you for your reply it does make sence because i did have A TON of motivation in the beggining and in the middle but when i started to reconize what i was doing i got less motivated and then soon led to bingeing which then led to guilt that lead to purgeing! Ah i think i got it LOL. Thanks -Andrew

Andrew, You're very welcome. I hope something in that post helps. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh

@AndrewGloriousHealth and HaveTriedEverything - interestingly my youngest has ODD (a conduct disorder of the same kind that psychotics have that includes inpulsivity, violence and impaired social functioning). This is a serotonin disorder probably and is also linked to anxiety disorder. The same part of the brain that governs pattern recognition is kin recognition - the function that allows us to relate to how others feel and put ourselves in their place. It also governs how well we separate - that is see others as separate human beings with their own agenda's instead of as objects solely in relation to us (as a baby does) and how we see ourselves in relation to them. And it also governs social functioning - the understanding of social rules and the kazillion unspoken understandings that humans have in their comunications and interractions and that most of us gradually assimilate as we grow. The treatment for these kinds of social disorders is twofold - one is to medicate with drugs that inhibit serotonin uptake creating more available serotonin and the other is basically retraining - educating the brain to learn functions that it doesn't seem to have naturally (much as accident/disease victims who lose brain function can retrain their brains to regain the function). The great news is that regulating insulin release appears to stabilise mood swings. That being said I've had my child on a low carbohydrate diet for the last 12 months (with some off periods). During those periods when she ate no processed carbohydrate foods her moods normalises and her symtpoms decreased dramatically. Far more so than when she was given medication. She is now Zoning and has so far shown an even greater increase in mood control and general social functioning. It's not ideal behaviour by any means, but coupled with the psychological work she is now within the difficult but normal range in her behaviours. Both her psychologist and I have monitored her when we reduced her processed carbohydrates and when we alowed them. The correllation for us anyway is fairly conclusive. My daughter, btw, came off her meds (buspar and zoloft) but whilst the carbs stayed lower, her moods and social functioning came easier. She has only become violent again when the carbs increased back to 'normal' levels. I am sure, HaveTriedEverything, that you'll be pretty familiar with the retraining the brain aspects of dealing with your condition. What I've found with my daughter is that when her insulin/moods are stabilised, her psychological learning seems to increase greatly. I've been working on her pediatrician and he's partly convinced. I'm now trying to get my internet support group to try Zoning their kids to see how it works for them. I can't wait for the next phase AndrewGloriousHealth (can I call you AGH?) when I introduce the fish oil capsules.

Dear Maigan, This is a wonderful post. It points out so clearly how large an impact the zone diet can have on behaviour. It also points out how the zone diet is not necessarily a cure all. It works so much better when you look at other factors and incorporate other therapies the zone diet does not cover. Its interesting to note that a recent study found depressed patients had a tendency to use a different part of their brains when processing thought than normal subjects and undergoing cognitive behavoural therapy activated a part of their brains they rarely used. I wonder if in ODD this is similar. Perhaps due to a combination of genetic factors, diet, lifestyle, emotional environment etc. patients develop these brain pattern problems. Then like a patient who suffers severe physical injury the part of the brain that is relatively unused must be taught to function again. For any problem emotions I do suggest you look into EFT www.emofree.com Just this week I interviewed a highly respected psychologist who uses EFT extensively in his practice. EFT involves tapping on accupressure points which seems a little strange but can be very effective and is very easy to learn - even for children. You can get plenty of free information at the site above. From his psychology clinic in Inglewood, Western Australia, Wells said: “If you told me ten years ago I’d be teaching people to tap on meridian points to treat psychological problems I would have said you’re crazy. It really does sound like new age mumbo jumbo. But now EFT is rapidly gaining a wealth of scientific and especially clinical evidence. “Perhaps the greatest vindication for EFT is the growing list of highly credentialed psychologists, counselors and medical professionals employing EFT with their patients. You simply wouldn’t keep using something that seems so strange unless it worked.” It will be interesting to see how the fish oil goes. I vaguely remember something unusual about ODD but I can't recall what it is. I'll have to get back to you. Thank you again for your wonderful post. I really hope things work out for you and your daughter. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh P.S. You can call me anything you like but my real name is Andrew.

Andrew - I've been looking over the EFt site - it's an incredibly interesting approach. I shall read the information more thoroughly in the next couple of days. Synchronicity is at work - the psychologist is due for her monthly visit at this time. I will be sending her a link to the site and imagine that we will discuss this via email between visits. Thank you so much. Did you mean you were going to investigate something about ODD and fish oil? I look forward to your discoveries, and any further information or links you might have. You can email me on maigan83@hotmail.com any time Maigy

Thank you for your replies i definely think that Zone can control moods and things of that sort what really gets me is that on the zone i am not hungary and consum the same number of calories on the Slim Fast diet and on the SFD i am madly hungary!!!! :? I am just leary because many R.D. Have told me that the ZONE is terrible diet high in protein and will lead to heart dieses and cancer but when i do it i feel SOOOO much better They told me its just a psycolicical (ERR bad spelling) thing but then i met one R.D. who said that its perfectly fine.I dont know LOL

The Zone is similar in quantities to the old Weight Watchers system - the amounts of protein recommended are only slightly higher and the carbs slightly lower. The old Weight Watchers plan was a lower carb diet (not the high carb low fat diet it is today). Nobody has ever queried the health benefits of the old weight watchers diet and as the difference in protein is only about 2ozs (if that) I cannot for the life of me think why anyone would think that Zoning could be harmful. As with many things today I am suspicious that those who criticise are either ill informed or have already made up their minds or have vested interests. I'd also point out that in Australia, for instance, the CSIRO (scientific research org) has produced a diet that is ... bingo.... lower in carbs than the previously recommended diet of high carb and low fat. I'm sure this happens elsewhere. I think we are kind of at that point where new thinking starts to catch on - I should imagine that in another 20 yrs people will naturally accept that the boom in processed carb foods and the heavy push to high carb diets coincided - as did the rise in obesity and other problems.

Hmm............ Interesting........... I see what you mean

Maigan, Can you explain how the old and the new point systems for Weight Watchers works? Is there a SIMPLE summary somewhere, printed or on-line? Do they provide a list of typical food values (like Dr. Sears does) that you memorize? How do you discern that the old point system was more like the Zone? Thanks, Charlie

[quote:48904dc87a="HaveTriedEverything"] ..... I am just leary because many R.D. Have told me that the ZONE is terrible diet high in protein and will lead to heart dieses and cancer but when i do it i feel SOOOO much better They told me its just a psycolicical (ERR bad spelling) thing but then i met one R.D. who said that its perfectly fine.I dont know LOL[/quote:48904dc87a] It is a very BIG misconception, widely held due mostly to ignorance that the ZONE Diet is high protein. The body can not process more than 4 blocks (28 g) protein at any one time. That's why the highest value at any one meal is 4 blocks. Any additonal protein is processed into stored fat. And with the ZONE all protein is balanced with good fat and proper carbohydrates. So why "medical" professionals consider the ZONE a high protein is only because they have not taken the time to understand it themselves and only parroting what others have told them.

Actually, after reading several of the sites that lump the Zone in with "high protein" diets, without exception, they are basing the "high" label on a percentage of calories, rather than a volume amount. So even though the number of grams of protein recommended is basically the same, they call the Zone "high" in protein because it's 30% of calories per day rather than 15% or 20% - [i:519f22a549]not taking into account that you are actually able/supposed to eat fewer calories[/i:519f22a549] in the Zone and not be hungry all the time! I don't agree with it (I'm a very happy Zoner!) but at least I finally understand where they are coming from...even if they're wrong :wink: Robbin

[quote:c8e4c8d00a="HaveTriedEverything"] what really gets me is that on the zone i am not hungary and consum the same number of calories on the Slim Fast diet and on the SFD i am madly hungary!!!! :? [/quote:c8e4c8d00a] In the March 2004 issue of the Journal of Nutrition a 45C-30P-25F diet was compared to a 60C-15P-25F diet. Both were effective in promoting weight loss, lowering cholesterol and insulin, but nitrogen balance was more positive on the 30% protein group (which means muscle mass was being maintained) and diet satisfaction was greater (less hunger) on the 30% protein. (two people dropped out of the high-carb group due to extreme hunger). Carol s. Johnston, et al [i:c8e4c8d00a]"High-protein, low-fat diets are effective for weight loss and favorably alter biomarkers in healthy adults"[/i:c8e4c8d00a] Journal of Nutrition; 134:586-591 March 2004 As angelrob noted, the use of the term "high-protein" refers to %calories as compared to current recommendations.

[quote:07d989675e="cduane"]Maigan, Can you explain how the old and the new point systems for Weight Watchers works? Is there a SIMPLE summary somewhere, printed or on-line? Do they provide a list of typical food values (like Dr. Sears does) that you memorize? How do you discern that the old point system was more like the Zone? Thanks, Charlie[/quote:07d989675e] Hmm I'll try to summarise: The foods were divided pretty much as protein, veg, fruit, fat, milk and bread. Within each of these some foods were unfavourable and restricted to so much per week eg lean veal was favourable and ordinary beef not, fish was preferred followed by lean chicken,eggs were restricted but egg whites not. It was still a high carb diet but high carb vegetable like peas and corn and potato came out of the bread allowance. They had combination foods like yogurt. Don't get me wrong - it was based on the conventional food pyramid but encouraged you to think more in nutrient rather than total outcomes. They didn't use points then - it was so many serving of a nutrient. But this was in the days when polyunsaturates were preferred to saturated fats but monounsaturated was never mentioned. The old suggested daily quotas were Milk 2 fat 1-3 fruit 2-3 veg 3 at least protein 4-5 bread 4-5 If you consider the milk as protein/carb then their protein was more like 6-7 so the protein and bread were roughly the same and the fats less. These days everything is assigned points and it is lower in fat and higher in carb. But because everything is assigned points which are based on the percentage of fats per kilojoule the system is entirely different. The amounts of carb (bread or unfavourable veg) doesn't come into it nearly so much. Its all about how much fat and total kilojoules. People focus on the number of points they can have per day, WW has a huge range of products that are low fat but high carb (and heavily reliant on artificial sweeteners) and their food guides are full of the points for all manner of sweets and what I consider really crap and junk food. They do say to limit alchohol/sweets to so many points per week. Vegetables are largely unlimited which and protein is more controlled but they still give the same values to margarine as to olive oil although they now talk about omega 3's and monounsaturates. Nuts rate poorly as they are high in the fat/total kilojoule ratio, wheat products come out fairly well. These days they call it 1,2,3,4,5 system - the basic sytem being I protein, 2 dairy, fruit veg, 4 veg and 5 starchy carb and grain - which comes to roughly half the daily requirement in points, with people making up the difference with a strong reliance on cereal based products and a little more protien and a tiny bit of fat - in the end much higher in carb than previously and lower in protein. Most of us in 'the old days' ate a more Zone like diet, trying to balance each meal with small serves of protein, lots of fruit and veg and a small amount of at least polyunsaturated fat which we ate at every meal. These days people at WW talk about the lowest point desserts (encouraged by the sweetened and processed WW range) and eat many processed foods with snacks of sweetened muesli bars and lots of cereal. They of course don't get much fat so no wonder they keep eating those bars, puddings and depend so much on artificial sweeteners. WW, by the way, has no interest at this time in avoiding GM foods.

Thanks Maigan, I appreciate the time you took. "GM foods" stands for? Charlie

[quote:0b75d42689="cduane"]"GM foods" stands for? Charlie[/quote:0b75d42689] Genetically Modified.