I was reading an article by Dr. Sears.
It the article he said to don't bother with the blocks and just use the fist method to fill your plate with healthy foods. He said that he regrets having mentioned the 40/30/30 but that those ratio are nevetheless important to understand that on the Zone carbohydrates intake must be higher than either fat or protein intake.

In the article Dr. Sears also said to get your carbs from fibrous veggies or low sugar fruits.

But something doesn't work there.
Vegetables containe on average 2,5 grams of carbohydrates per 100 grams. Low sugar fruits contain on averate 4 grams of carbohydrates per 100 grams.

Let's say a person consume 1800 calories a day.
He would need at least 170 grams of carbohydrates to have a diet where carbohydrates are more than proteins and fats.

To get 180 grams of carbohydrates from fruits and vegetables one would need to eat 9 pounds of veggies or low sugar fruits.

To get 60 grams of carbs from vegetables and low sugar fruits one would need 4 pounds of vegetables and low sugar fruits. But 60 grams of carbohydrates would make a diet ketogenic and the balance of the Zone would be compromised.

My conclusion from these numbers if that if one gets his/her carbs from fruits and low sugar veggies the diet becomes automatically very low carb and ketogenic and fat intakes becomes way way higher than carbohyrate intake and hence you're not anymore on the zone!

Might work as long as one is on a very calories diet to lose weight but doesn't work with maintenance and for children which Dr. Sears addressed in that articles saying that they should get their carbs from veggies.

Starches seems absolutely necessary to have enough carbohydrates to balance the proteins and the fats (hence to remain in Zone) while on maintenance.

Any thought?

I can't remember the last time I ate a starchy food in order to balance my carbs!

I don't totally agree with your statement.

First, I don't recall Sears stating that he says not to bother with the blocks. Sure, it is probably easier to use the hand/eye method, or plate method, but there are other more precise ways of putting zone meals together.

Second, Sears has said that he regrets ever mentioning 40-30-30, but the block method has more to do with 40-30-30 than just getting the right percentages of carbs/protein/fat. And, the "balance" is basically a starting point. Since we are all individuals, not everyone sticks with that balance. Some require more carb, some require less.

Third, the Zone does advocate eating large amounts of veggies and fruits. However, one does not have to eat large volumes of food in order to get the right number of blocks (or carbs, or whatever you choose to count). If you take a look at the carbs listed on the food block guide, there are a variety of veggies and fruits-some are more volumous and some are less. In order to keep the food plate manageable, zoners generally mix it up to keep the volume down, while assuring that they are getting adequate carb intake. For instance, one can add a block of black beans to the meal, which is only 1/4 cup per block. Additionally, one can add some tomato sauce to a meal, which is only 1/2 cup per block. Then, add a piece of fruit as part of the "dessert", and you will have a meal that easily fits on your plate and meets the body's carb requirements.

Cran, the block method does have to do with 40-30-30 because the ideal P/C ratio (about 0.75), which falls at the the midpiont of the acceptable Zone range of .6 to 1, when Zone balanced with the appropriate recommended amount of fat, is almost exactly 40-30-30. As I understand, what Dr Sears regrets re 40-30-30 is originally having described the Zone as a 40-30-30 eating plan, because that caused some people to misunderstand and not realize that the Zone also includes adjustments, which take it out of the 40-30-30 description.

Sue,
The block method is based on much more than 40/30/30.

40/30/30 is solely choosing carbs/protein/fat so that the calories are in the correct ratio.

However, the block method is more variable. It isn't a perfect 40/30/30 (don't forget the uncounted grams/calories of the insignificant amounts of protein in a veggie source, or the uncounted grams/calories of fiber). Also, one must consider using the food block guide and choosing favorable foods, keeping unfavorables to a minimum.

Sue, I didn't say that you said that, either!

But, you DID say "the block method does have to do with 40-30-30".

My post was a clarification on how simplistic 40/30/30 is, compared to the block method.

> Daniel, what's the point you're trying to demonstrate when you
> attempt to estimate the weight in pounds of approximately 18 Zone
> carb blocks composed of lower density fruits and veggies?

It seems to me that once a person has no more weight to lose and need to raise the calories and find a maintenance level then the amount of food by volume to get 40% of calories as low density carbohydrates becomes not very feasible because those carbohydrates are indeed so low density.

20 mini blocks of carbohyrates are required to have 40% of carbohydrates out of 1800 calories.

So are 20 blocks stricly low density carbohydrates a feasible amount by volume and weight?

For example to have 20 mini blocks of carbohydrates as apples one would need 10 cups of apple. Seems a lot to me!

To have 23 mini blocks of carbohydrates as snow peas one would need 16 cups of snow peas. Seems a lot to me!

I know people in the forum who just fill the plate with protein, a dab of healthy fat and lot of veggies. I believe that they're not in a Zone balance at all but are actually consuming way less carbohydrates and way more fat. More like 25/30/45

Daniel,
I think I am seeing the point that you are trying to make. I believe that you feel that it is not feasible for one to consume such large volumes of veggies, and even if they tried, they certainly could not possibly be getting the amount of carb that is required--right?

Well, I don't know if you read my other post earlier on this thread. But, most people in the Zone actually DO NOT consume such large volumes. They actually create smaller volumes using the ingredients that I listed in the previous post.

Barry Sears himself makes this point. Not many people are going to eat 4 cups of broccoli in one sitting, nor are they likely to eat 10 cups of lettuce. And, those are 1 block portions, not even enough for a meal. However, most of us combine our foods, we use such low density veggies in much more manageable smaller portions, and then we use other veggies which essentially are of smaller volumes.

I am not sure why you are using the examples of 20 blocks and 23 blocks, when you are trying to illustrate an 18 block meal plan. However, your apple example is not a valid example because one would not eat 10 cups of apples in one sitting. But, over the course of the day, that could easily be a manageable volume of food to eat. Same with the snowpeas.

I DO agree, however, that some who use the plate method may not be getting adequate carb. Personally, I do not believe that the plate method is a very accurate way of getting a zone balance. But, it is a good method to know and to use when in a situation where he/she is not the cook.

It is all about balance and moderation. And, it is about what works good for you.

> Well, I don't know if you read my other post earlier on this
> thread. But, most people in the Zone actually DO NOT consume such
> large volumes. They actually create smaller volumes using the
> ingredients that I listed in the previous post

I see what you mean now.
I read your post but I was confused by the fact that you claimed no starches are needed and I thought that included beans.

Speaking of which I checked the menus on the Zone Chef service just out of curiosity. Their meals to me (aproximate calculation) don't seem to be in the zone at all. Less carbohydrates and more protein and beans are rarely used.

Are beans the only favorable carbs with a small volume enough?

> I am not sure why you are using the examples of 20 blocks and 23
> blocks, when you are trying to illustrate an 18 block meal plan.

I used 20 blocks because at 91 calories per clock a 1800 calories diet should be 20 blocks. If 18 blocks were 1800 calories the amount of carbohydrates would be lower. At 9 grams per block one would have 162 grams of carbs which is 35% not 40%.

> However, your apple example is not a valid example because one
> would not eat 10 cups of apples in one sitting. But, over the
> course of the day, that could easily be a manageable volume of
> food to eat. Same with the snowpeas.

10 cups would be like 2.2 pounds of apples or 7-8 apples.
Even spread over the course of 5 meals, isn't it too much bulky food?

I think I am getting what your point/question is about, now.

Beans are one of the more dense carbs in the "favorable" carb category. They do have a relatively low glycemic load, which is probably why they are favorable. Another "starch" that is favorable are steel cut oats. You can consume 1/3 cup cooked oats per block of carb.

I am not familiar with Zone Chefs, and I do not believe that they are endorsed by this site or Dr. Sears. I can't speak to their "zonability".

Looks like you are using calories to do an analysis of the Zone. However, the focus in the Zone is not on calories. The Zone IS going to give you far fewer calories. But, the focus is on insulin control, and that lower levels of insulin will cause fat loss (and not just a decrease in calories).

You should not become ketogenic, though. Simply put, if you do become ketogenic, then the recommendation is to increase carb intake.

On your apple example, I do not think that 7-8 apples over the course of the day is too much bulky food, if that was what I would choose to eat for my carb all day. Really, it is 1 1/2-2 apples per meal, depending on the number of blocks for that meal.

Perhaps, so that I can understand your point better, you could explain why you are concerned about eating too much bulky food? To me, a perfect world is one in which I can eat endlessly and not have to worry that I am getting too much!