I have read that fish oil can increase blood sugar for Type 2 Diabetics and pre diabetics.. Does anyone know about this? My fasting glucose is 111 (recommended range is 65-110). My insulin is 4.0 (below the recommended range of 5 - 10). My hemogloben ALC is 6.2 (recommended range is 4.4-5.9).. My doctor says I am prediabetic and put me on Glucophage. I eat a balanced Zone diet which includes fish and/oir fish oil several times a week. I am wondering if this is a contraindicated in my case. Here are comments refering to fish oil/diabetic the study: --------- [quote:54a42ef5d0]"Some recent trials suggest that fish oil could actually worsen diabetic control. In one study, the use of purified EPA and DHA (fatty acids found in fish oil) by diabetic patients was evaluated. Participants took high doses (4 grams per day for a six-week period) of EPA, DHA or olive oil in addition to their regular diets. It was found that, compared with the olive oil, the EPA and DHA increased the blood sugar in diabetics. Interestingly, the insulin levels were not increased. The researchers speculate that the EPA causes the liver to break it down and actually increase its production of glucose in the process. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, November 2002 Vol. 76, No. 5, 1007-1015 [/quote:54a42ef5d0] -------- I would appreciate alll feedback.

Dear Rosebud, The study is probably a little flawed (it would be very handy if you could give me the link or post the whole study). Olive oil will slow the release of glucose into the blood stream. This is why you eat good fats as part of the zone diet. It is important to note that for type 2 diabetes the primary treatment should be an insulin controlling diet because type 2 diabetes is characterized by excess insulin production and insulin resistance. Fish oil is used more to treat eicosanoid related diseases that can result from the excess insulin. (Excess insulin leads to the overproduction of bad eicosanoids). The other benefit of taking fish oil is in making your cell membranes more fluid increasing the effectiveness of insulin receptors in the cell membranes. This would decrease the production of insulin. This process can take a few weeks. Note in the study that insulin levels were not increased probably due to this increase in insulin sensitivity. If insulin levels do not rise from supplementation of fish oil then the article shouldn't really claim that fish oil can worsen diabetic control since controlling insulin is the primary objective in diabetic control. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh

Dear Andrew, Thank you for your thoughtful response. Regarding fish oil and Diabetic control you wrote: [quote:d84474f149]The study is probably a little flawed (it would be very handy if you could give me the link or post the whole study). [/quote:d84474f149] Please go to the following link which includes the study from American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and anecdotal evidence as well. http://www.mercola.com/2002/nov/16/...abetes.htm In my case I have slightly high fasting glucose and normal fasting insulin. You stated: [quote:d84474f149]It is important to note that for type 2 diabetes the primary treatment should be an insulin controlling diet because type 2 diabetes is characterized by excess insulin production and insulin resistance. [/quote:d84474f149] However even though my fasting insulin is ideal - actually lower than normal, my endrocinologist put me on glucogen for 3 months due to my slightly elevated glucose. I'm borderline according to my doctor's opinion. She specializes in Diabetes. And I have been eating a Zone diet for several years. Even before going on the Zone, I was a health food fanatic - eating lots of fruits and vegetables and almost no processed carbs. Thanks again, :D Rosebud

I think the key with the fish oil is the dosage. If you increase your dosage over a period of a few weeks you should be increasing your insulin senstivity (by making your cell membranes more fluid - insulin receptors are in the cell membranes). If I was having problems with blood glucose I would be looking at other lifestyle issues in any case. It's interesting that your endocrinologist put you on glucogen for three months. Is this the same glucogen that's released when you eat protein. Insulin's opposing hormone. Or is it some proprietory brand name for some other form of drug? You probably know this but other factors apart from diet affect insulin and diabetes. Excess stress will release cortisol the "stress" hormone which usually results in an increase in insulin production and an increase in insulin resistance. So developing relaxation techniques and methods of dealing with negative emotions should both be helpful. Poor sleep can result in insulin resistance (almost immediately!) This is probably because one of sleep's primary functions is to reduce your body's cortisol levels. On the positive side exercise can reduce levels of insulin and cortisol and increase insulin sensitivity. Also in a system that's not fully understood, when you exercise your muscles can actually utilize glucose without insulin's help. (Insulin normally helps facilitate the passage of glucose into the cells from your bloodstream). So exercise can help lower blood glucose levels. I apologize if I'm telling you something you already know. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh

Andrew, I think Rosebub was thinking about Glucophage (the brand name for "metformin") and you are confusing things. Glycogen is the stored from of glucose in the liver and muscles; glucagon is the "Insulin's opposing hormone" to rephrase you. To me, there's nothing called "glucogen".

Thank you for that. In Australia the drugs usually have different names to the US so I often need educating. Kindest regards, Andrew

Hi Andrew, Oooops! :oops: Zonadept is correct. I take Glucophage. Thank you for your common sense response. And yes, most of it I am aware of. But I really appreciate your taking time to share your knowledge. Actually I'm not Diabetic. My fasting glucose is 111 but my fasting insulin is under 5 which is a good level - even a bit low. My doctor thought I might be at risk or borderline. I'm not sure I agree but we'll see. You wrote: [quote:dc952d4fc3]On the positive side exercise can reduce levels of insulin and cortisol and increase insulin sensitivity. Also in a system that's not fully understood, when you exercise your muscles can actually utilize glucose without insulin's help. (Insulin normally helps facilitate the passage of glucose into the cells from your bloodstream). So exercise can help lower blood glucose levels. [/quote:dc952d4fc3] Regarding exercise and blood sugar/insulin, I'm curious what form of exercise you believe best benefits insulin and glucose. I go to the gym a few times a week and spend more time with weight resistance exercises than aerobics. There is some controversy regarding the benefit of anerobic exercise as a semi replacement for aerobic exercise in that it also can also provide cardiovascular improvement while strengthening muscle, bones, metabolism, etc. Did you read the link I sent you in my prior post? It's rather interesting. You will note that the blood sugar of Dr. Mercola's son increased to dangerous levels after consuming fish oil inspite of a Zone like diet, exercise, etc. And on another note, what do you think about PGFO compared to Molecular or food grade fish oil in its effect on raising LDL? Have you read any studies that compare forms of fish oil and their effecs on LDL? Anne-Marie and I discussed this in my post regarding fish oil and glycemic response. Thank you kindly, Rosebud

I did read the link to Mercola's site where he talked about his father's problems with blood glucose levels. There are simply too many variables in such a scenario for me to make a comment. The study about fish oil would certainly make you cautious about taking LARGE doses of fish oil if you're a diabetic before you have other lifestyle factors under control. I haven't really seen any studies comparing the effects of different kinds of fish oil. In fact it can be difficult determining what kind of fish oil is used in a published study. You usually make a guess based on DHA/EPA content. I will look at your post. AEROBIC OR ANEROBIC? What kind of exercise best benefits glucose and insulin? Anerobic or strength building exercise that breaks down muscle tissue leads to the release of human growth hormone. Human growth hormone helps your body put on muscle and burn fat. I think aerobic exercise is more likely to help you reduce insulin and blood glucose simply because a normal (untrained) person can sustain aerobic exercise for a much longer period of time without producing excess cortisol the stress hormone. Excess cortisol can lead to a rise in insulin and insulin resistance. The longer you can exercise for without producing excess cortisol the more glucose will be drawn into your muscle cells for energy. I usually suggest people do 5 to 15 minutes of strength building exercise followed by 20 to 40 minutes of aerobic exercise. Everyone is a little different but as a guideline this tends to give you the best of both worlds. It's also vitally important to note that your body usually BEGINS burning fat after around 20 minutes of exercise. If you really want to lose fat exercise between 30 minutes and 55 minutes. This gives you maximum fat burning time and minimum chance of producing excess cortisol. I hope this helps. I do cover quite a few fat loss tips in the book One hour to glorious health and permanent weight loss which is a free download. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh

ANEROBIC EXERCISE FOR AEROBIC FITNESS I was a professional sports coach for over a decade in a sport which required a high level of repeated anerobic activity. I can tell you unequivicoly that anerobic exercise does produce aerobic fitness. (The reverse is not generally true). Having said that it is my observation that those who avoided all aerobic exercise in favour of anerobic exercise may have performed better but were not as healthy as those who included a higher percentage of aerobic exercise. My suspicion is that anerobic exercise simply produces higher levels of cortisol. I know when I was training my health was always far better if I went for long runs 2-3 times a week. I also notice that people in primarily aerobic sports enjoy better health ( perhaps less stress, less cortisol). Just my opinions though. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh

Andrew wrote: [quote:f9a13b7edd]My suspicion is that anerobic exercise simply produces higher levels of cortisol. I know when I was training my health was always far better if I went for long runs 2-3 times a week. [/quote:f9a13b7edd] Interesting! Charlie

Andrew, Your posts were quite illuminating. :idea: Regarding fish oil and Diabetes, you state: [quote:8b51dbfd35]The study about fish oil would certainly make you cautious about taking LARGE doses of fish oil if you're a diabetic before you have other lifestyle factors under control. I haven't really seen any studies comparing the effects of different kinds of fish oil. In fact it can be difficult determining what kind of fish oil is used in a published study. You usually make a guess based on DHA/EPA content. I will look at your post. [/quote:8b51dbfd35] Do you have any opinions regarding the PGFO recommended on this site in preference to molecular and/or food grade fish oil? Do you think the type of fish oil would make a difference in its effect on Type 11 Diabetes or low LDL? Your post regarding anerobic vs aerobic exercise is quite interesting: [quote:8b51dbfd35]My suspicion is that anerobic exercise simply produces higher levels of cortisol. I know when I was training my health was always far better if I went for long runs 2-3 times a week. [/quote:8b51dbfd35] Since you ran 2-3 days a week, can I assume you think three days a week of aerobic exercise is enough for health benefits? I go to the gym three days a week and tend to do more anerobic exercise than you recommend ( about 1 1/2 hours ) prior to 30 minutes of aerobic exercise. Thanks again Andrew Rosebud

Grades of fish oil. I think if you can afford it you should use pharmaceutical grade fish oil which has been properly tested for levels of PCBs, heavy metal contamination etc. Price is really the only issue. Pharmaceutical grade fish oil is obviously the better choice. There's always the issue that health food grade and lower grades of fish oil may not be digested well depending on their levels of strange algae derived fats. I've been in the unfortunate circumstance of recommending large doses of PGFO to people with inflammatory diseases who have very limited incomes. Some of these people use health food grade fish oil as a short term measure. Sometimes it seems to work, sometimes the gastric problems are overwhelming. I tell them of the dangers and basically tell them not to do it but I'm supportive and observant when they do. My suspicion is that the level of strange algae derived fats varies in health food grade fish oil from batch to batch depending on the diet of the fish the oil was derived from. If the fish oil isn't digested properly it probably won't work too well. Hence the greatest value of PGFO - no strange algae derived fats. I would also question the wisdom of using large doses of health food grade fish oil in the case of neruological illnesses. Patients with neruological illnesses are likely to be more sensitive to the contaminents in the fish oil (the brain is very sensitive to PCBs and heavy metals). As I said, all in all it's obviously better to use PGFO. But having said that it's better to use something rather than nothing if finance is an overhwhelming issue. (On that note if anyone is reading this and has the wherewithall and the heart to set up a foundation to provide PGFO to financially needy people I have plenty of people who would be worthy benefactors. Please email me at andrewcavanagh1@bigpond.com.au or visit my website www.geocities.com/glorioushealth to make a donation). You can be too paranoid. Worrying about PCB or heavy metal contamination which most likely won't have a serious effect on you for years or even decades when you're suffering right now from an inflammatory disease which you could abate or eliminate within a few weeks with serious fish oil supplementation is probably a bit overboard. But my basic recommendation, yes, is pharmaceutical grade fish oil. Dr Sears research and recommendations are sound and responsible in my opinion. I honestly don't know if the type of fish oil would make a difference in its effect of LDL or type 2 diabetes. You should probably ask Dr Sears. I recommend fish oil symptomatically so if someone asked me what dose to take for just plain diabetes (no diabetic neuropathy) I would go along with Dr Sears basic dose for maintenance. But I would very much look at diet and exercise and to a lesser extent sleep and emotional health with a diabetic patient. Again with cholesterol levels controlling insulin is the first priority so diet and exercise come first although you could go along the route of treating cholesterol fractions with pharmaceutical grade fish oil (see my post elsewhere for more details on markers for heart disease). EXERCISE I recommend exercising EVERY DAY. Let me repeat that so there's no chance you misunderstand. EVERY DAY. Ideally 25 to 50 minutes a day. Build up gradually. Studies suggest that exercising every day reduces insulin levels and increases insulin sensitivity especially as you get older. Recovery is the key to exercise so if you spend half of your 1 1/2 hours exercising resting between sets you might be alright but I would be worried about the excess release of cortisol that can start after an hour or so of exercising. Excess cortisol has the tendency of creating abdominal fat. It also increases insulin resistance. I don't know you personally and you would obviously be sensitive to your body needs (hopefully). If you feel stressed after a workout - too much cortisol. You should really feel relaxed and happy due to the reduction of cortisol and the release of serotonin the feel good hormone (repetitive movements release serotonin hence the mood elevating benefits value of walking and jogging). I am a fan of gyms but I don't use one for the above reasons. I have an exercise routine I can do in a closet if necessary so I can exercise every day wherever I am. I also perform EFT (a method for reducing negative emotions) while I jog on the spot. I pray (or meditate) while I jog on the spot. This makes it an incredibly uplifting experience and is a clever form of multitasking. But you really have to find what works for you. Once your diet is right you really should be losing weight if you exercise properly. I hope all this helps. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh

Andrew, I can't believe I never responded to your posts. I responded to the glycemic questions and just missed these. So sorry :oops: and thank you. [quote:c606d9ddb4] If you feel stressed after a workout - too much cortisol[/quote:c606d9ddb4] Although I never feel stressed, I do sometimes feel fatigued after spending over 2 hours (sometimes even 3 hours! ) :shock: doing weights and aerobics at the gym . [quote:c606d9ddb4]I also perform EFT (a method for reducing negative emotions) while I jog on the spot. I pray (or meditate) while I jog on the spot. [/quote:c606d9ddb4] Dr. Mercola's website (I think I've sent you several links) often discusses EFT. You may want to look at it. Personally I rarely get depressed and I try to relax and enjoy life but perhaps a little mediitation wouldn' hurt. . . since I do have my anal side. [quote:c606d9ddb4]Excess cortisol can lead to a rise in insulin and insulin resistance. The longer you can exercise for without producing excess cortisol the more glucose will be drawn into your muscle cells for energy. I usually suggest people do 5 to 15 minutes of strength building exercise followed by 20 to 40 minutes of aerobic exercise. Everyone is a little different but as a guideline this tends to give you the best of both worlds. It's also vitally important to note that your body usually BEGINS burning fat after around 20 minutes of exercise. If you really want to lose fat exercise between 30 minutes and 55 minutes. This gives you maximum fat burning time and minimum chance of producing excess cortisol. [/quote:c606d9ddb4] After reading the above, I have recently tried to reverse my exerciise routine - not only to reduce corisol, but to burn more fat. I assume if you want to lose weight, that cardio works better?? So I am now doing weight bearing exercises 3 times a week for 30 - 40 min (it's hard for me to shorten my routine much more while working the sets I like). I follow with about 40 min of cardio. On days I don't go to the gym, I power walk on the beach before sunset - great for mood lifting! [quote:c606d9ddb4]If you really want to lose fat exercise between 30 minutes and 55 minutes.[/quote:c606d9ddb4] Don't quote me on this but I believe Dr. Sears does not recommend more than 30 min of aerobic exercise because he feels that not only anerobic exercise can build cortisol, but aerobic exercise longer than 30 min can also build cortisol. What do you think? Do you think very long cardio work outs also stress the system? And if they do, doesn't the body resist fat loss at that point? And one more thing I'm really confused about. If I have low fasting insulin (at 4, I'm lower than the range of 5-27), is that considered a good or bad level? And why would I have a high fasting glucose (111) paired with better than average fasting insulin? Thanks again, Idelle

Dr Sears and exercising 30 minutes a day. I think you're referring to Dr Sears suggestions in The Age free zone which quote a Harvard study. The harvard study found that the ideal level of exercise for longevity is around 2,000 calories of exercise related expenditure or 300 calories a day. This equates to around 30 minutes of slow jogging or 35 minutes of brisk waling or 69 minutes of slow walking a day for a man. For a woman 40 minutes of slow jogging, 47 minutes of brisk walking or 94 minutes of walking slowly every day. Everyone's level of fitness is different of course. You're more likely to create excess cortisol during extended strength building exercise than cardio simply because of the tissue breakdown involved. I think the danger period begins after 50 minutes or so of exercise but again it would depend on your level of fitness. Cortisol is produced by stress. Your low fasting insulin combined with high fasting glucose is mysterious. It reminds me of something deep in the back of my mind but at the moment I haven't been able to work out what it is. It may come to me eventually. If you look on the internet for Gary Craig's site on EFT you can dowload a free manual and he will even send you a set of introductory CDs on an honour basis (no money up front). On my site a download of the same free manual is available (www.geocities.com/glorioushealth) I can say that if you have negative emotions they are more or less unecessary. You should be able to remove them with EFT. Kindest regards, Andrew

[quote:55e46228ab="AndrewGloriousHealth"]You're more likely to create excess cortisol during extended strength building exercise than cardio simply because of the tissue breakdown involved. ... Cortisol is produced by stress. ..... Kindest regards, Andrew[/quote:55e46228ab] Hey Andrew; Have you seen the new [FAD] bombardment of Advertising for CORTI-Slim? Another rip-off for the consumer. At least the Focus Factor adv. has slowed UP a little.! Now, if only we could get rid of all of the Dummycrat adv over-whelming us, these days. Fortunately I live in NH and primary (and those adv.) will be over for us , soon.

Andrew, I agree that weight lifting does seem more fatiguing than aerobics. But more importantly it depends on how long my total work out is. I'm much less fatigued when I contain my work out to 40 min of resistance training and 30-40 min of cardio. [quote:3798b52bdb]Your low fasting insulin combined with high fasting glucose is mysterious. It reminds me of something deep in the back of my mind but at the moment I haven't been able to work out what it is. [/quote:3798b52bdb] If you ever unfold the mystery, let me know! I do take supplements to improve insulin resistance like chromium, lipoic acid and biotin. But still, it doesn't make sense since I try hard to curb sugar and starch. [quote:3798b52bdb]If you look on the internet for Gary Craig's site on EFT you can dowload a free manual and he will even send you a set of introductory CDs on an honour basis (no money up front). On my site a download of the same free manual is available (www.geocities.com/glorioushealth) I can say that if you have negative emotions they are more or less unecessary. You should be able to remove them with EFT. [/quote:3798b52bdb] Thank you so much for the EFT offer. I look forward to reading the manual. It's great for other Zoners to discover this as well. Have you thought of making a general post with the subject of your EFT manual? Does EFT help in other areas besides curbing negative emotions? I'm really not that negative - however, I have heard that EFT helps dieters and helps with goal motivation in general. I think I read this on Mercola's site. Thanks again, Idelle

I am happily unaware of those advertising campaigns due to two facts: 1. I live in Australia 2. I barely watch any television - which is a great way to avoid being bombarded with advertising and inaccurate information. Having said that, I think there is truth in everything if you know where to look and how to look. Kindest regards, Andrew