[color=darkred:fbfa03d353]Thanks guys. :) [/color:fbfa03d353]

[quote:2a19518626="cranberrycat"]According to Mendosa's web site, pinto beans have a GI rating of 39, but if you multiply by 9 grams of carb, it is still in a low GL range. Kidney beans and Garbanzo beans have a GI of 28. So, I again must state that there must be more to it than just the GI of a food, which was the point I have been trying to make. And, Sue has also just stated that very well.[/quote:2a19518626] Well, 39 is a LOT higher GI rating than 28. If I were going to pick a "favorable" bean, I would choose kidney beans over pinto beans any day. That should not stop one from using pinto beans though, if it combines into a whole meal in a favorable way. I eat black eyed peas with a lot of broccoli and tomato sauce --add soy crumbles and call it sloppy broccoli :D Don't have a problem with it. Find what works for you and enjoy! Regarding the confusing message about carrots: The carrots were obviously working even though the were labeled with a (wrong) high GI. All those confusing messages were just everyone reaching for possible reasons why they worked with that high GI number. They did not realize at the time that the answer was as simple as the GI wasn't really that high!

[quote:7108451075="gofish"] Well, 39 is a LOT higher GI rating than 28. If I were going to pick a "favorable" bean, I would choose kidney beans over pinto beans any day. That should not stop one from using pinto beans though, if it combines into a whole meal in a favorable way. Regarding the confusing message about carrots: The carrots were obviously working even though the were labeled with a (wrong) high GI. All those confusing messages were just everyone reaching for possible reasons why they worked with that high GI number. They did not realize at the time that the answer was as simple as the GI wasn't really that high![/quote:7108451075] Dennis, I don't consider 39 to be "a LOT higher" than 28, when everything is all on a scale between 0-100. And, it is all relative, anyway. The GI rating is still in the low range, and when you take the time to multiply the GI by the amt of grams consumed, you still come out with a low GL rating. Overall, the important thing is how do they work for the individual. The GI, as you know, is expressed as an average based on testing of a number of people. So, as an individual, one may tolerate them better or worse than the "average", anyway. So, the actual number is really not that important, it is the range that they are in, and how well they keep an individual in the Zone with steady insulin levels. :wink: The entire purpose of this thread was to get back to the pinto bean, though. So, I hope that we have helped mthomas make a rational decision on pintos, since he is the one who likes them so much. Me, I enjoy black beans just as well, and since we know for sure that they are favorable and low GI/GL, I will just stick with them! Finally, on the carrots: I didn't realize that they would cause so much debate, but I suppose I will accept that as a fact. However, are you stating this fact based on Mendosa's report, or have others said the same thing about carrots? Because, I had never heard this reported as a "mistake" until you brought it up. Sears obviously didn't realize that it was a "mistake", and still believes that carrots are high GI and low GL, as per his newsletter tip. Oh, and by the way, I had also brought up green beans and lettuce in this discussion. Can anyone comment on why they have such high zone point values? Perhaps I will pick up the phone and call someone next week, if the Zone Wellness moderators don't get back to us on that! Actually, maybe I shoud start a new thread on that so this topic won't be buried under the bean topic.

[quote="cranberrycat"][quote:bd2f319aa7="gofish"] Well, 39 is a LOT higher GI rating than 28. If I were going to pick a "favorable" bean, I would choose kidney beans over pinto beans any day. That should not stop one from using pinto beans though, if it combines into a whole meal in a favorable way. Regarding the confusing message about carrots: The carrots were obviously working even though the were labeled with a (wrong) high GI. All those confusing messages were just everyone reaching for possible reasons why they worked with that high GI number. They did not realize at the time that the answer was as simple as the GI wasn't really that high![/quote:bd2f319aa7] The useful range of GIs for favorable carbs is 10-50, so 10 points is significant. Raw carrot GI is 16 (erroronious result is 91 done in 1981) Boiled carrot GI is 41 SmartZone bars range from 14-23 depending on flavor Peach 28-35 Beans 20-55

[quote="gofish"][quote:b017030e50="cranberrycat"][quote:b017030e50="gofish"] Well, 39 is a LOT higher GI rating than 28. If I were going to pick a "favorable" bean, I would choose kidney beans over pinto beans any day. That should not stop one from using pinto beans though, if it combines into a whole meal in a favorable way. Regarding the confusing message about carrots: The carrots were obviously working even though the were labeled with a (wrong) high GI. All those confusing messages were just everyone reaching for possible reasons why they worked with that high GI number. They did not realize at the time that the answer was as simple as the GI wasn't really that high![/quote:b017030e50] The useful range of GIs for favorable carbs is 10-50, so 10 points is significant. Raw carrot GI is 16 (erroronious result is 91 done in 1981) Boiled carrot GI is 41 SmartZone bars range from 14-23 depending on flavor Peach 28-35 Beans 20-55[/quote:b017030e50] Well, I don't entirely agree with your train of thought here. The range is based on percentage, and the scale is 0-100. Within the 0-55 range, yes--there is a significant difference. However, this is still a low GI range, and the value of 39 is no even close to the upper range, if you want to use your statistics. 39 is 11 more than 28 (the GI value of the "favorable bean"). But, 55 (the upper edge of the low GI category) is 11 more than the pinto beans. So, pintos are still well within the low GI category. Personally, though, if kidney beans work better for you than pintos, then that is a result of how your body handles the carb. Incidently, using Mendosa's data, strawberries have a higher GI than the pinto beans, but we view strawberries as a favorable food with a GI of 40. Also, Mendosa rates apples as 38, compared with strawberries at 40. And, I also see sweet corn is listed with a GI of 54. And, all of these foods will come out with a low GL when you look at the table or do the math yourself.

[quote:7b0f9e8ec6="cranberrycat"]Well, I don't entirely agree with your train of thought here. The range is based on percentage, and the scale is 0-100. Within the 0-55 range, yes--there is a significant difference. However, this is still a low GI range, and the value of 39 is no even close to the upper range, if you want to use your statistics. 39 is 11 more than 28 (the GI value of the "favorable bean"). But, 55 (the upper edge of the low GI category) is 11 more than the pinto beans. So, pintos are still well within the low GI category. Personally, though, if kidney beans work better for you than pintos, then that is a result of how your body handles the carb. Incidently, using Mendosa's data, strawberries have a higher GI than the pinto beans, but we view strawberries as a favorable food with a GI of 40. Also, Mendosa rates apples as 38, compared with strawberries at 40. And, I also see sweet corn is listed with a GI of 54. And, all of these foods will come out with a low GL when you look at the table or do the math yourself.[/quote:7b0f9e8ec6] Sorry if my train of thought was not clear. I stayed up late to write a very long reply with lots of research, only to get bumped off the forum when I hit Submit. I lost everything, and it was way past bedtime. So I just put a few notes in so that you could beat me up. :lol: The point I was going to make was that I can not find any reasonable consistency from site to site or even within some single sites as to the GI of common foods. The same food can vary from very low to high. I think the state of GI testing is not yet good enough to base food choices other than on a very crude relative basis. Your reply makes that point as well. Common sense has to prevail. One thing was clear as a pattern though. Cooking any vegetable until it is VERY well done, increases its GI substantially --on the order of double. Also, since fruits and many beans are at the high end of the favorable carbs, they should be moderated with other low GI foods for large meals. Now I am finished with this thread. We have cooked the beans to death and their GI is rising. :lol:

Dennis, Sorry that your post didn't work out. But, I think that you got the point that I was trying to convey. And, my goal was not to "beat you up", merely to have a reasonable discussion. :) You are a very intelligent member of this board, and I imagine you probably had something very interesting to say in your post that was wiped out! That is exactly the problem with using the GI, there is no "standard" measure, there seems to be so many differences from one site to another, and within the data of one site. Using the GI is really only useful to make some intelligent decisions on choosing foods that have not been tagged with favorable/unfavorable. And, it sounds like we can finally agree on that one! And, today, for lunch, in honor of our discussion, I am having a concoction that I cooked up last night: chicken, green peppers, salsa, and BLACK BEANS. Since the jury is still out on the pintos, I will just avoid them and use the black beans. 8)