Greetings, In Dr. Sears "Mastering the Zone" he has a Glycemic index of foods based on the rate of entry into the bloodstream near the back. On page 355 in the Moderate(40-60) section lists several beans. One of them simply states "Brown beans". Anybody know what a brown bean is? Is it a Pinto Bean? If so, then since black beans are also listed in the moderate section and Dr. sears has them in a good deal of recipes, then Pinto's are zone friendly? thanks,

I am not sure if a brown bean is a pinto or not. But, to answer your question, pintos are favorable. All beans are favorable. You would use the same measurement, 1/4 cup for a block of beans. If you use the Zone points, they count as 3 points per 1/4 cup.

wow, thanks for the reply. I didn't know that all beans were favorable. They sure are welcome break when the fruits and veggies get a little old. :P

Before you start jumping up and down about pinto beans, I must admit that I was incorrect :oops: Many beans are favorable, but I see on the Zone Points list that Pinto beans are NOT favorable. A 1/4 cup serving is counted as 7 points and pinto beans are also considered unfavorable on the block index. Sorry for the confusion. However, many other beans ARE considered favorable carbs.

rats, I like pinto's. Oh well, lots of other beans to choose from. I came up with a really good ham and bean soup that I'm going to post soon. I wonder if the brown beans he's talking about are the little brown beans used for "pork and beans"

The beans frequently used in pork 'n beans are navy beans. Also pea beans (they're white). They look brown because they've been cooked with molasses, brown sugar or both, as well as water. So I wouldn't think these are the brown beans Dr. Sears is referring to! Linda in MA

Hmmmmm......the plot thickens. I hope someone chimes in and reveals what a "brown bean" is. It would be nice to add another bean to the diet.

Did you say that you were wondering about brown beans because of their listing in "Mastering the Zone"? Lots of information has been updated since then, maybe you should just look for the bean that you like and refer to the new/updated block list or Zone Points list.

Are you refering to the block chart on the website? If so, I don't see any brown or white beens that he has listed in the book. If not, does he have a new book out with an updated guide? thanks,

The Zone Points list is printed in "The Anti-Inflammation Zone", and there is a carb block index in there, as well. Also, there is an updated list of Zone Points that was just released in the last newsletter by Barry Sears.

great, thanks.... :o

Hi, I found the new block list on the website. But it didn't have white beans (navy beans) listed in either the favorable or unfavorable. So I guess that's still a mystery.

[quote:e19f5dc025="mthomas"]Hi, I found the new block list on the website. But it didn't have white beans (navy beans) listed in either the favorable or unfavorable. So I guess that's still a mystery.[/quote:e19f5dc025] [color=darkblue:e19f5dc025]If you can find their Glycemic Load value, then that can also tell you where they fall. ([i:e19f5dc025]First number is GL, second is GI[/i:e19f5dc025]) From: http://www.mendosa.com/common%5Ffoods.htm [/color:e19f5dc025] [color=darkred:e19f5dc025]GI: low=1-55 mid=56-69 High=70-100 GL: low=1-10 mid=11-19 High=20 or more[/color:e19f5dc025] [color=darkblue:e19f5dc025] [u:e19f5dc025][b:e19f5dc025]Medium GL, Low GI:[/b:e19f5dc025][/u:e19f5dc025] Apple juice ( 11, 40 ) Bananas ( 12, 52 ) Buckwheat ( 16, 54 ) Fettucine ( 18, 40 ) [b:e19f5dc025]Navy beans ( 12, 38 ) [/b:e19f5dc025] Orange juice ( 12, 50 ) Parboiled rice ( 17, 47 ) Pearled barley ( 11, 25 ) Sourdough wheat bread ( 15, 54 ) [u:e19f5dc025][b:e19f5dc025]Compare to Low GL, Low GI:[/b:e19f5dc025][/u:e19f5dc025] All-bran cereal ( 8, 42 ) Apples ( 6, 38 ) Carrots ( 3, 47 ) Chana dal ( 3, 8 ) Chick peas ( 8, 28 ) Grapes ( 8, 46 ) Green peas ( 3, 48 ) Kidney beans ( 7, 28 ) Nopal ( 0, 7 ) Oranges ( 5, 42 ) Peaches ( 5, 42 ) Peanuts ( 1, 14 ) Pears ( 4, 38 ) Pinto beans ( 10, 39 ) Red lentils ( 5, 26 ) Strawberries ( 1, 40 ) Sweet corn ( 9, 54 ) I haven't had time to look them up; however, here's two other web sites: http://www.nutritiondata.com/ http://health.fortworks.com/ [/color:e19f5dc025]

cool, thanks....

[quote:d15edc1a36="jaydpiii"][quote:d15edc1a36="mthomas"]Hi, I found the new block list on the website. But it didn't have white beans (navy beans) listed in either the favorable or unfavorable. So I guess that's still a mystery.[/quote:d15edc1a36] [color=darkblue:d15edc1a36]If you can find their Glycemic Load value, then that can also tell you where they fall. ([i:d15edc1a36]First number is GL, second is GI[/i:d15edc1a36]) [/color:d15edc1a36][/quote:d15edc1a36] A lot of people seem to get confused about the importance of GL in the Zone diet. GL is meaningless if you are following a zone diet, only the GI is important. GL is the GI times the typical serving size (the total number of carbs will vary greatly). A high GL food with a low GI, just means that the food has a lot of carbs for the volume of food. Dr. Sears points out that these high GL foods are one of the reasons that people get too many carbs --because it is easy to eat a lot of them at one meal. However, if you are following the Zone diet, it does not matter how large or small the volume is, because you always adjust the serving size based on the number of carbs --not based on the suggested serving size on the package. That is to say, we use the point, block, or gram method to keep the total carbs of the meal a constant. The way we keep the GL of the whole meal within a reasonable upper bound is by choosing mostly low GI foods (favorables) and not eating too many blocks in a single meal.

Well, I agree, to a certain extent... If you follow the Zone diet to the fullest extent, and choose low density vegetables, only eat berries, and never use any unfavorable carbs, then you will not have any problems with the GL. However, most zoners don't follow Zone to the nth degree. The Zone guidelines allow for 25-30% of your meal to come from unfavorable carbohydrates. How about a meal like this: 2 cups yellow squash, 1.5 cups green beans, and 1/4 cup mashed potatoes (along with your favorite protein and fat)? We can agree that this adds up to 3 blocks of carbohydrate, but the GL is high--and the zone points count is high--comes out to 20 points for the "3 block meal" (and 20 points is what is recommended for men who normally follow a 4 block meal plan). The GL (and therefore, the Zone Points) can help to make smart decisions regarding the carbs to be chosen for a Zone meal. The green beans in this meal are obviously the real culprit, although one would probably make the assumption that the mashed potatoes would have to be removed. 1.5 cups of green beans carry 9 points on the Points list. Now, replace the green beans with a block of asparagus--4 points, keep the yellow squash and the potatoes, and you have 15 points for the 3 block meal. And, you could replace the potatoes with some spaghetti squash, and then your 3 block meal drops to 12 points. All three of those examples are 3 block meals, but have different GL and Zone Points values.

[quote:afa32cce4a="cranberrycat"] All three of those examples are 3 block meals, but have different GL and Zone Points values.[/quote:afa32cce4a] The point Dennis was making is that what drives the G-Load is the G-index of each carbohydrate because the Zone puts all the carb blocks on an equal footing with respect to serving size (9g each).

I think you are both missing the point here. The Zone block method alone does not put all carb blocks on an equal level with respect to the serving size. If that were true, then the Zone Points system would simply assign a point value of 5 for every block serving of favorable carbohydrate. However, it isn't as simple as that. I will admit that the block method does do a good job of it, I just think that using the GL or Zone Points seems to be a more accurate way of keeping the GI or GL at an acceptable level.

[quote:d001e692a6="cranberrycat"]Zone block method alone does not put all carb blocks on an equal level with respect to the serving size. [/quote:d001e692a6] Here is what we're getting at yet. GL = GI x g (grams per serving size) If all your carbs blocks are 9 grams at each, then g is constant. So what drives the GL if g is constant is the GI. Another way to look at it is the GL being the [u:d001e692a6]quality[/u:d001e692a6] (GI) x the [u:d001e692a6]quantity[/u:d001e692a6] (grams per serving). If using the block system, no matter what carbohydrate you choose, the quantity is always 9 grams. So knowing the GI tells you the GL. To the extent the point system deviates from a system of constant quantity (ie 9g per block) than it appears our differing viewpoints are the result of the type of measurement system we are looking at.

I see what you mean there. That, I can agree with. GI is where it all begins, to determine whether a particular carb can be considered favorable or unfavorable. However, in the "Anti-Inflammation Zone", Dr. Sears goes on to explain that the GI has significant limitations. "It is based on eating 50 grams of carbohydrate of one particular food at a single sitting", as quoted in the book. It doesn't tell you how much a REAL serving of food raises blood sugar levels and also doesn't take into account yoru total carb intake in a given meal or snack. As you both indicate, the block method takes some of this and simplifies it. GL puts it all into more realistic terms, just like the block system does. And, the Zone Points makes the numbers even more realistic, rating some zone favorable foods a bit more "favorable" with a lower point count than other favorable veggies. Going back to Dennis's point in the first place, I don't really believe that you need to pay attention to the GI or the GL. The Zone Diet does all the calculations for you. And, if we have a question about how a particular food rates, we can consult the GI/GL tables for more information. You can either look at the GI and do all the calculations yourself, or you can just look at the GL.

[quote:af9186ecba="cranberrycat"]goes on to explain that the GI has significant limitations. "It is based on eating 50 grams of carbohydrate of one particular food at a single sitting", as quoted in the book. It doesn't tell you how much a REAL serving of food raises blood sugar levels and also doesn't take into account yoru total carb intake in a given meal or snack. [/quote:af9186ecba] No question. Pasta with a low GI does you no good if you are eating a whole plate of it. [quote:af9186ecba]GL puts it all into more realistic terms, just like the block system does. And, the Zone Points makes the numbers even more realistic, rating some zone favorable foods a bit more "favorable" with a lower point count than other favorable veggies. [/quote:af9186ecba] As I mentioned in my edited post above, I think this discussion is dependent on which measurement system being used. If both favorable foods have the same quantity (as they would in the block system), then isn't the GI the only variable left in determining which is a bit "more" favorable? I suppose the point system combines all that for you in ranking the carbohydrates?

That is true, I believe. All the work is done for you. Let me ask you a question, Scott: If all you had to go on was the Zone information, and you had no access to the GI or GL tables, would you assume that you could safely eat 1.5 cups of green beans, seeing them appear in that serving size on the favorable list of the Zone Block Index? However, with a bit more knowledge, given the Zone Points tables (and still leaving the other tables aside), would you not treat green beans a bit differently? I know, in the future, I will definitely limit portions of green beans, knowing that a block of them carries a point value of 9. I will also be looking more cautiously at other higher density carbs. Now, I don't know (didn't take the time to look it up) about the GI/GL of green beans on the tables. How do they rate out there (just curious)?

[quote:6f9ededa95="cranberrycat"]Now, I don't know (didn't take the time to look it up) about the GI/GL of green beans on the tables. How do they rate out there (just curious)?[/quote:6f9ededa95] I looked on several sites, and the answer is not clear. Some sites claim "french beans" are virtually zero GI. While "green peas" are about the same as apples. I could not find "green beans" listed with a GI. If a green bean, is a combination of a green pea in a pod, then I would guess that it would be less than an apple. Of course that does not make any sense if the point system implies that a block of green beans has a higher GI than a block of apple. I have always been suspicious of the block measurements when using volume to measure a food that can be "packed" very differently into a measuring cup. I can have a 2:1 difference in how many green beans I can get into a measuring cup. That is the reason I made up the chart of blocks by grams. The chart says 80g of apple or 200/250g of green beans raw/boiled make a block of carbs. How many grams of fresh/frozen green beans can you fit into 1.5 cups? Of course 9 points could just be a typo...

[quote:1e2a85d6de="cranberrycat"]I see what you mean there. That, I can agree with. GI is where it all begins, to determine whether a particular carb can be considered favorable or unfavorable. However, in the "Anti-Inflammation Zone", Dr. Sears goes on to explain that the GI has significant limitations. "It is based on eating 50 grams of carbohydrate of one particular food at a single sitting", as quoted in the book. It doesn't tell you how much a REAL serving of food raises blood sugar levels and also doesn't take into account yoru total carb intake in a given meal or snack. As you both indicate, the block method takes some of this and simplifies it. GL puts it all into more realistic terms, just like the block system does. And, the Zone Points makes the numbers even more realistic, rating some zone favorable foods a bit more "favorable" with a lower point count than other favorable veggies. Going back to Dennis's point in the first place, I don't really believe that you need to pay attention to the GI or the GL. The Zone Diet does all the calculations for you. And, if we have a question about how a particular food rates, we can consult the GI/GL tables for more information. You can either look at the GI and do all the calculations yourself, or you can just look at the GL.[/quote:1e2a85d6de] The point system tries to take into account the GI as well as the number of carbs to keep the GL of the meal lower. The GL of the meal is complex. Different types of protein have different effects on insulin rise. Different types of carbs have different effects beyond the GI. The GI is the rise in blood sugar, which is related to but not exactly the same as the rise in insulin. Finally, fats can slow the digestion rate which will also have an effect on the whole meal. And somewhere in there is the learned response of the body to release insulin into the blood in response to the anticipated (not real) need --as in artificial sweeteners, or other sweet tastes. Every individual is different. If you can eat 3 blocks of green beans in a meal and stay in the Zone, then it is Ok for you. I know I could. However, 3 blocks of mashed potatoes and I will be out like a light. You can use the GI of your carbs (forget GL as the serving sizes are variable and are not Zone constant) to rank the relative GL of a Zone meal. Add up the number of blocks times each carbs GI for the whole meal. That is the relative GL of that meal. If you have some meals that hold you better than others, give this a try and see how they rank against each other.

[quote:b54111af26="cranberrycat"] ... then the Zone Points system would simply assign a point value of 5 for every block serving of favorable carbohydrate. However, it isn't as simple as that. I will admit that the block method does do a good job of it, I just think that using the GL or Zone Points seems to be a more accurate way of keeping the GI or GL at an acceptable level.[/quote:b54111af26] I have not seen this new "POINTS" system. Which book? Is there any info available on this?