After doing so well on the zone diet, high energy and NO hunger really despite not being able to sleep at nighttime much due to severe nasal congestion--it's like a sudden stopping of breathing every few minutes, so I jerk awake, so I never actually sleep--I'm now sleeping a lot more, thanks to NAET treatments, to the zone fish oil I had just got--I stopped experiencing allergic reactions on the second day of the zone fish oil at 16 capsules a day--suddenly I'm having intense hunger.

I remember trying to stay on the zone diet for weeks while suffering from intense hunger too. I gave up the zone diet as a result. It was too hard for me.

I don't want to give up the zone diet this time around. But I am cranky and irritable despite having much more sleep--6 hours last night I think--and hungry so much of the time.

So. Posting my meals online. by the way. I think a few of you already saw my posts about the zone fish oil and the, er, graphic details in the bathroom? LOL. I went off the zone fish oil for one day, went back on it with 6 capsules, it seemed ok, and I increased to 9 capsules this morning, I'm waiting to see what happens in the bathroom!!! :-)

I also am undergoing NAET treatments, for whomever of you might be familiar with this. It's a naturopathic treatment that eliminates allergies via the meridan system (which scientists now learn does exist, by the way). Acupuncture, acupressure-like stuff, etc., etc. Some of it is definitely weird, but Im giving it a chance. I'm detoxing from the treatments and experiencing weird sensations like numb skin (as if I've been smoking pot--and I don't!)

I don't think the NAET treatments has anything to do with this hunger though.

My meals today:

10 a.m. breakfast: 3 blocks pollock (nearly fat free fish), olive oil (1 tablespoon), 2 blocks spagetti squash (2 cups).

This breakfast normally keeps me very well when I was doing well previously. But now it's not working.

I started wondering if I was missing by accident some of the olive oil, since some of it was still on the plate. So for lunch ...

LUNCH: 2 pm 3 blocks chicken (a bit over 2 ounces COOKED--I weighed the raw chicken, then the cooked chicken, and calculated it to be 2 ounces if I want 3 blocks. A lot of water and thus weight leaves the chicken after it's cooked obviously.

nearly 1 tablespoon of olive oil, and this time around, I licked the plate clean to make sure I had gotten all the fat!

1.5 cup of spagetti squash, which normally keeps me very well (= 1.5 blocks carb), and one cup raw cabbage (=1/4 block), and, because I had nothing else in the refrigerator, 1/4 block blueberries (1/8 cup of blueberries).

Ok ... that's my meals for today! I will post the meals from yesterday in case someone can see something ...

Alexy

Yesterday's meals:

A note by the way. I know Sue recommended smaller meals more frequently. It was so busy I couldn't do that, and because of my reflux, I want to get in my last meal, supper, early in the evening and then the 2 small snacks. But tomorrow I'm changing to smaller meals more frequently, since Sunday is more of a relaxing day for me.

Yesterday's meals:

breakfast 10 a.m.: 3P pollock, oo (olive oil, typically one tablespoon or more at this point for pollock since when I get hungry, I stop being interested in losing weight).
2 cups spagetti squash.

some mild hunger that comes and goes.

lunch at 1:50 pm: 3P chicken, scant 2 cups (2C), I see I meant to eat 2 frozen grapes for desert but forgot! So that's why the "scant two cups"

had hunger, but by the time I got to 5 pm, I wasn't hungry at that point.

SUPPER: 5:30 pm: 3P pollock, oo, 1 cup raw cabbage, 1 cup spagetti squash, 1/2 cup pasta sauce (6 grams carbs)

I had 2 snacks but I didn't record waht they were. Typically they are some protein, oo, and blueberries (1/3 cup of blueberries).

I had some hunger but not intense I guess.

I'll post more meals as I go along, but I'm anxious to pinpoint the problem ... so I'm hoping someone can see something ... I'm gonna call the pharmacist up about the new med I'm on, but I don't think its the cause ...

Alexy

I wasn't clear what the carb was in the meal when you missed the grapes, but not sure it matters. You're doing a good job, just keep posting.

Hi Cranberrycat,

Thanks for your support. I'm hoping I can find out why this is happening. I do know that I am definitely carb-sensitive. I used to eat apples and oranges and to get hungry right afterwards. But I'm very confused by this.

It's not a lack of water either. I drink endlessly. Water, I mean. :-)

Supper was at 5 pm, although it's almost 6 pm and I'm waiting for the last part to cool down so I can eat it.

I had intense hunger again.

I'm still hungry right now, and I started eating at around 5:10 I think.

Supper was 3P chicken, 6 big olives for flavour (a lot of sodium though!), and this is the last part, a scant 1 1/2 cup of large chopped tomato pieces and a small handful of onions to flavour it. Because of my allergies, I have to boil the tomatoes to kill a certain thing so I won't react to tomatoes.

I want to add, that that thread about tomatoes versus pasta sauce made a lot of sense to me, so I switched over to regular tomatoes, and microwave them for 5 minutes to become more pasta-sauce-like as well, e.g., to reduce their volume so they don't take up as much room in my stomach.

I'll be eating more olives too as dessert. And maybe one or two grapes!

Someone PLEASE help me find out what the problem is. As far as I can see, I'm eating a very pure diet. Not organic, no, but that was the same before when I was feeling great on this zone diet. I want that great feeling back!

Alexy

3 olives to a block, so this meal is missing fat.

Looks like the onion and tomatoes are a little over 1 block of carbohydrate. Try adding more veggies to get to a full 2 blocks carbohydrate. If you eat the olives and a significant amount of grapes for dessert (more than 1 or 2 grapes) this will but you closer to a balanced 3 block meal.

huh? This chicken has half the necessary fat already; I fried it in oo so that was more fat; I ate probably 5 grams of fat worth of olives. So I thought that was enough fat overall ... but I will try again with this meal and tweak.

Ok, so I need to cut back on the tomatoes and onion (which was something like 1/8 cup I think)? And increase the veggies?

Is that what you were saying?

I ate 2 frozen grapes. Is that significant?

Alexy

Ok ... I do take a nasal steriod spray. It's called Nasonex.

(I went to the pharmacist and he looked at all my meds and couldn't see any that could trigger hunger, by the way. He looked at my nasal spray as well but didn't say.)

A quick Googling online comes up with the following:

"Nasonex nasal spray contains the active ingredient mometasone furoate, which is a type of medicine known as a corticosteroid.

Corticosteroid medicines are derivatives of corticosteroid hormones that are produced naturally by the adrenal glands.

They are often simply called steroids, but it should be noted that they are very different from another group of steroids, called anabolic steroids, which have gained notoriety because of their abuse by some athletes and body builders.

Corticosteroids have many important functions in the body, including control of inflammatory responses. Corticosteroid medicines are mainly used for their effect in controlling inflammation, and corticosteroid nasal sprays are used for the localised treatment of nasal allergies."

I did increase the # of sprays from 2 to 3. So that was an increase from 8 sprays to 12 sprays a day. I informed my family doctor of this.

The increase did happen recently ... I don't know when though. But it's been a couple of weeks at least I would guess. So the link for me is not clear, unless it takes time for the hunger side effect to start showing up?

Alexy

[quote]
Posted By Sarah on 21 Jul 2012 08:04 PM
huh? This chicken has half the necessary fat already; I fried it in oo so that was more fat; I ate probably 5 grams of fat worth of olives. So I thought that was enough fat overall ... but I will try again with this meal and tweak.

Ok, so I need to cut back on the tomatoes and onion (which was something like 1/8 cup I think)? And increase the veggies?

Is that what you were saying?

I ate 2 frozen grapes. Is that significant?

Alexy
[/quote]


I didn't realize the chicken contained half the fat you need and that you cooked it in olive oil.

No, I'm saying to add more to the tomatoes and onion because together they are not even 2 carbohydrate blocks.

I do not consider two grapes to be significant.

Alexy, I think you are eating cleanly, good choices. Maybe you can keep put down the amounts so that a quick check can be done for blocks.

So, your nasal spray is basically a local steroid, but there is some degree of absorption. I don't know if it is significant enough to cause your hunger or alter insulin levels. Do you have any problems with glucose tolerance? Not talking about carb sensitivity...

Sarah, I doen think it's the Nasonex.

Typo: "don't" think

Hi Cranberrycat and Sue,

Thanks for your help. And your wonderful compliments!

Ok, I'll start posting the actual amounts I'm eating, e.g., 1 1/2 cups of this or that ... for that quick check. I have trouble ... perfectly ... gauging the amount of protein I'm actually eating, so it's not exactly 1 block necessarily. It could be 1.5 blocks. Is that a problem?

Glucose intolerance? I'll have to Google to find out what that is ... I wouldn't know!

alexy

Middle of the night, because I had only one to one hour and half of sleep due to sudden unexpected jerking convulsive movements--of the shoulder, of legs, of arms, and what I call "internal facial jerks" because it doesn't show on the outside, only on the inside. Has anyone else ever had this experience? Is it neurological?

Anyway. Back to my point. Middle of the night, because I had only 1-1.5 hour of sleep, I ate an extra snack at 5 a.m. And doing so leaves me wondering--if someone is awake most of the night as well as during the day, and maybe even somewhat active during the night sometimes--I knit, I pace, you get the idea--does that person need extra snacks???

This is all so confusing ...

Anyway. My middle-of-the-night snack was 1.5 cup of tomatoes, microwaved for 5 minutes to reduce it and to deactivate something in it that I'm allergic to. Can't remember the name right now. And 1 to 1.5 block of pollock. And 2 tsps of oo.

Breakfast at 7:30 a.m. is 3P pollock (according to package information), plus one tablespoon oo, plus several olives for dessert. Carbs: 2 full cups of spagetti squash. That may be too much volume for me ... better to go with tomato "sauce" and spagetti squash.

I am exhausted from lack of sleep ...

Alexy

I have never had that experience myself, but your post is helpful in that I am thinking your lack of hunger control may not have anything to do with your diet, but rather your lack of sleep.

Keep eating cleanly, don't give up logging, will keep looking for food issues, too. I bet that if you have food issues, it isn't for lack of knowledge, but rather a product of frustration because it is seemingly not working. Happens to me, sometimes, too.

Forgot to mention, it isn't necessary to be exact on the zone. So don't worry too much about the amounts. It would only matter to me if you were way off on amounts. I'm not going to ask you to measure and weigh. You can do it if you want, just don't do it thinking that you have to, cuz you don't.

:)

Actually, these days I'm real anal, unbelievably so ... I measure out the cups of veggies and so on. LOL. But, I measure by using cup measurments, stuffing veggies into the cups, and not by weight, because I don't have the information from the Food Guide re: how much veggies should weigh, etc.

All measurements are pre-cooked ones.

If it is due to lack of sleep--then why is it that I didn't have this problem for weeks? I was satied for a long time anyway. Suddenly that changes.

Yes, I am very frustrated that this is seemingly not working, but I have to hang on there ... and know that soon, my body will come into balance.

I am not a happy camper right now: tired after weeks of not sleeping--some nights absolutely no sleep, some nights one-two hours, some nights thankfully a few hours of sleep--and wanting it to all end and for me to sleep normally. But I'll hang on there and it will become a memory of the past.

Alexy

I might have misunderstood about the sleep, I thought it was going better until this more recent bump in the road.

But my point is really that may not be the food that is the issue. You have issues that are quite complex. Did you ever find out about whether they still offer zone coaches? That might be a good route to go, not that I don't enjoy this online:) I just think it is easier to interact one on one when there is so much to be said.

Well, the sleep issue was bad for a while, then improved, then got worse again. Mind you, I still sleep more overall, but it's still rough right now.

I thought Sue said there are no longer zone coaches on another thread? So I didn't follow up. But, I can call up tomorrow and see what they say ...

eating a lot of olives and almonds for stress relief ... I'm hoping that it doesn't disturb my zone.

Exhausted!

I enjoy talking to you online, too, Cranberrycat! :-)

Alexy

You mention glucose intolerance or whatever it is. Do you mind expanding on why you think I might have this?

Less hunger today, though, not as intense ...

Alexy

Let me get back to you on a full keyboard. My android is driving me crazy!

Alexy,

Here are some more thoughts. The fact that a certain food or meal once worked well to keep you in the Zone, does not mean it always will. Bodies change, and needs change. The Zone can change with it to support your evolving needs. Keeping a food diary would be great for you right now. In clue in it how you feel 4 hours after meals. If you have hunger its whether it is the focused or unfocused type. I'd suggest adding some more variety to you meals and snack, because your current ones aren't preventing hunger right now. Spaghetti squash may no longer be one of your best choices. The best vegetables for the ZOne are things like tomatoes, mushrooms, peppers, eggplant , cucumbers , Zucchini greens and green beans, Try things like spinach, kale and Swiss chard. A little oil and vinegar added to them make them a very delicious addition to any meal.

Sleep can most certainly be a factor in lack of weight loss. While you were losing weight previously when not getting much sleep, at this point it now sounds like you have been very sleep deprived for a more prolonged period of time which could now be taking it's toll. The fact that you are awake for extended hours but remain basically sedentary at night would not would not necessarily add more blocks to your day. Activity level changes which would prompt eating more are mostly dependent on the amount of strength training added.

Thanks, I agree, I don't have enough variety. So I have to look into that.

Thanks for all of your information, it is very helpful.

I don't care about weight loss at this point. I need to stabilize my sleep patterns and control my hunger first, then I will shift my focus to weight loss. It's a luxury at this point given my situation right now.

Thanks for letting me know I don't need to add blocks (unless I'm starving!).

I'm finally shifting to smaller meals more frequently, by the way. I'm also trying to pay attention to how I feel physically. It's rare that I'm unfocused, normally I'm focused, BUT, I'm very sleep deprived, so that impairs my concentration.

BUT!! I've been unfocused as a result of too much carbs in the past--sleepy, unfocused, etc--and it's different, definitely, than my current lack of unfocusing.

Because I'm having trouble concentrating due to lack of sleep, BUT I have good energy and stamina relatively speaking. I was on the trendmill at the gym for an hour yesterday walking fast, 4 miles per hour or more, so that is a fast clip for someone who's exhausted and sleep-deprived LOL.

When I was unfocused from too much carbs, I tend to vegate, lying around doing nothing. I have very low energy at those times, I just want to go to sleep.

Alexy

LOL Cranberrycat! :-)

What Sue said is what I was going to suggest, sometime what was working previously doesn't always consistently work. You might have to switch up your veggies to see if you can get a combination that works.

But, on the other hand, if it is related to something else other than food, then going through the process of changing your food combinations might not be necessary, if you can pinpoint what other factors may be impacting your success.

Your lack of sleep really concerns me more than your food choices.

Back when I was struggling, it all came down to stress and sleep. No matter what good I did eating well during the day, it didn't even matter because the food was not really the reason why I was struggling.

BTW, I was not suggesting that I thought you had an abnormal glucose intolerance. I was just digging for some more information to try to help you figure this out. Do you or have you ever had elevated fasting blood sugars during your normal blood work-ups? And, I don't know if you had answered this or not, but was also wondering if you are (or were) taking any oral corticosteroids, like prednisone?

Hi Cranberrycat,

Ok ... I will switch up veggies but honestly I think spaggetii squash still works for me. The reason I think so--The hunger thing was too abrupt for it to put it on spagetti squash. It happened all of a sudden. Foods don't change their effect on people that quickly.

I'm gaining satiety again ... and I am glad because I feel better ... I'm in the zone sometimes now ... feeling better despite exhaustion and severe sleep deprivation ... but I don't know why it's changing again.

I see what you are saying about it not necessarily being the food.

Thanks for trying to explore various avenues I might not have considered. Elevated fasting blood sugars ... ok, my way to answer this is as following: I've taken fasting INSULIN blood tests, and been consistently quite low--maybe too low at one point--in all of these tests. That is, I have low insulin when I'm zoning.

I have to find my test results from two weeks ago ... and post them online ... so maybe someone can see something ...

No oral corticosteriods, just a med for my reflux, various allergy meds, etc. I asked the pharmacist, he says none of these meds have hunger as a reported side effect.

I do take that nasal spray that I told you about ... but with me not changing the the # of nasal sprays per day and gaining satiety again anyway, well, I am guessing, if this satiety continues, that we can cross out the nasal spray as a cause.

Alexy

Some info about me... As I have also been one to struggle with hunger at times. My fasting insulin levels have always been low. But I still have a fasting glucose that is elevated and I fail everytime I have done a glucose tolerance test. Just sharing, etc.

Ok ... I will check my test results, I can't find them as yet. LOL. And see if I got a glucose tolerance test. If not, I'll get a test done ... :-)

Thanks for this, it's one more avenue to investigate.

What's the difference between a fasting insulin level and a fasting glucose level????

Alexy

You would know if you had a glucose tolerance test... You have to drink this yucky syrupy soda, then get your glucose levels at designated times, 1 hr, 2 hr, etc.

The glucose tests blood sugar, and fasting insulin tests insulin.

Blood sugar (glucose) comes from the digestion of carbohydrates. It becomes elevated when too much carb is taken in. The pancreas secretes insulin in response to the elevated glucose levels. If your glucose is elevated, then your insulin levels will also elevate to keep your glucose from getting too high. If your fasting glucose is normal, it does not guarantee a good fasting insulin, as your pancreas may be working very hard to maintain that normal glucose.

Now, in the case of abnormal glucose intolerance, there is a breakdown in handling the glucose. The key to preventing it from progressing to diabetes is focusing on low glycemic load carbs, keeping the glucose from fluctuating and therefore insulin levels are lower.


Check to see of you have had a fasting glucose test. If that is normal, then they would probably not order the glucose tolerance test.

Ok, I'll get a copy of the test results ... I lost mine somewhere around here so I have no idea if I had a "fasting glucose test" LOL.

Thanks for all this information, it's one more avenue to explore.

If my fasting glucose test turns out to be normal, do I still need to order the "glucose tolerance test" to check for this anyway?

Posting my meals now ...

Morning, 10 a.m.: 3P chicken (grassfed), oo, 1 cup zucchini, 1.5 cup spaggetti squash. It's 1 pm and I'm not intensely hungry. I'm so busy I'm having trouble doing the smaller meals approach, but trying to do so later on in the day to reduce the volume.

Coming up at 2 pm and 5:30 pm: lunch and supper. both are the same: 3P grassfed chicken, oo, 1 cup brocilli, microwaved; 1.5 cup egg plant, microwaved (which reduces its volume considerably); just under 3/4 cup of spagetti squash (because it's smaller volume) and for dessert, 3 grapes.

I pour oo, olive oil, on top of these. And i can try vingegar too ... LOL

I know, I'm supposed to quit the spagetti squash and see what happens ... I did reduce the amount of spagetti squash here though! LOL.

Alexy

Alexy,
if your fasting glucose is normal, your doctor may not see the need for a glucose tolerance test. I am not sure you would need it in that case. And, besides, this was just a question I had to help figure this out with you... I am not necessarily recommending that you have the test.

I think your meals are looking great! I agree that it is hard to do the smaller meal approach when you are busy. I had tried doing that at one time, but my opinion is that I always felt like I was chasing my hunger. It felt good to eat a whole meal and get a few good hours of satiety. So, I ended up quitting that approach.

If you feel that the veggies that you are eating are starting to work better for you again, then I would not necessarily cut anything out. Give it a few days... you know, it takes a few days before you can really consider making adjustments.

Ok ... hmm.

I'm sleep deprived (what else is new!) so I will ponder what you said tomorrow when I'm hopefully more rested ... I got in 2 NAET treatments today.

thanks for the compliments.

Answer ya tomorrow

Alexy

Hi CranberryCat and Sue,

Ok, updating you guys (and whomever else is reading this! LOL)

Satiety has returned. Iwent 5 hours without food--I just forgot. I wasn't hungry when I rushed home to eat supper.

It's been twice, when, by accident, I went longer than 4 hours, and yet I was basically fine.

So that test ... huh. I have to call the doctor to get my test results ...and get back to you guys. I'm severely sleep deprive, two hours last night, but did sleep well the previous night. Sigh.

I tend to sleep two hours most nights. I'm amazed that my satiety is still good considering how elevated the cortisol levels must be.

Alexy who's typing this while breathing in steam from a pot ...

I am glad you are doing better. definitely keep us posted!