I am new to the Zone; I have read 'Mastering the Zone'-which has many verrified mistakes in it. I have a question regarding 3 block lunches. I have evaluated the (good) type of bread that I have found where I live (in Italy) from the information on the product verses the 'general' info. from the Zone Appendix. If my bread label reads:
For example: A slice of whole wheat bread
The Zone lists it as: 1/2 a slice= 1 Carb. (unfavorable)
If I use the info. chart on the package:
1 slice at 23.6 gram; P= 2.8g (no blocks); C= 9.8g – 1.4g Fiber= 8.4g (1 Block); F= 1.3g (1Block).

So, if I follow the package, I could eat more-in regards to making a whole sandwich, than if I go by the book; maybe the book is more general if a food item does not have a breakdown with it-then revert to the appendix?

I have read that bread is an 'undesireable' Carb, but if I use this bread to make a sandwich-counting the bread as 2 Carbs (& 2 Fat blocks) is that right or am I risking NOT to 'lose' weight if I make sandwiches for my lunch (balancing the blocks)?

Is it better to really cut bread, pasta, etc. at least until I lose some weight, reach my desired weight, than I can add them back (such as sandwiches), to keep my achieved weight continuous?

One general rule of thumb in the Zone is to keep your use of unfavorable carbohydrates to no more than 25% of the total carb of your meal. You could possibly work it out using one slice of bread, but if you use more than that, chances are that the unfavorable carb in your sandwich will be much more than 25%.

It all comes down to the glycemic load of the meal. It is possible that the average person can tolerate up to 25% unfavorable carb, and that this won't signficantly raise the glycemic load of the meal. But, if you eat a meal that has a higher glycemic load, then you are not able to control your body's insulin response to that meal. In the end, your body does not get into the "fat-burning" mode and you will not be in the Zone.

It is possible to lose the weight and still eat your bread, but there is so much more to the Zone than just cutting calories. In the Zone, this is a lifestyle change, so most Zoners don't really go into this as a temporary diet solution, and actually people find that the way they feel in the Zone outweighs how they feel out of the Zone eating bread.

Hi, yes it's better to cut out bread, pasta, and grains in general. Unfavorable carbohydrate should not exceed 25% of all the carbohydrate in any one meal. If you eat more than that you will ot be able to maintain the low insulin levels that are necessary to allow toy to lose excess stored body fat. Depending on your degree of sensitivity to carbohydrate you may find you need to exclude all unfavorable carbohydrate.

So, eating a 'regular' sandwich will not be in the Zone; better to just eat the protein (Turkey, Roast Beef, etc.) out of the sandwich, and pair it with salads or fruit? The same going for Hamburgers, etc. Get rid of the bun or have an open face one? I am not very overweight, but really want to lose at least 15-20 pounds. I already eat healthy-just my portion sizes and matching blocks are off; this is where I need help to fine tune them-otherwise I don't really lose weight, I just maintain it. So, my only option is to just reduce the unfavorable carbs more? Even if I keep the blocks all matched, I should reduce unfavorable Carbs-then I should lose more stored fat?

How much fat do I have to add per meal to match the 3 oz. Protein and Carbs per meal? I know the Fat blocks should match (1.5 grams per block), but if 3 oz. of Turkey meat (3 blk Protein) has no fat, how much fat total do I add for the meal? Do I look at the Carb choice as being nonfat or lowfat as well when evaluating the Fat Blocks?

If I choose, for example, 3 oz. of Roast Beef-which is a little fatty, does that count for 'hidden fat'? In which case I add a little extra fat?

Once more, if I mix my Protein choices for that meal, such as 2 oz. of Egg whites (no fat= add....?), with 1/2 cup of Greek yogurt (label lists it as 1 Protein blk, 1 Fat blk), than I don't need extra fat added (for that part of the protein for the meal)? It is really really confusing how to evaluate this stuff!
Is it true if I don't add enough fat to the meal, I will not be burning any stored fat, and if I add too much to the meal, I risk storing that extra fat? So, I better get this calcuation part of the Fat right?!

Is it right that if a product comes with a label breaking down the P, C, & F per 100grams, per serving, etc., I should do the calculations, figure out how much P,C, & F I will be eating with that product regardless of what the ? I should use the Zone Appendex in general cases in which the food item doesn't have a label?. So, the only problem is trying to figure out how much fat to add in per meal!

[quote]
Posted By Sue on 05 May 2012 07:56 AM
Hi, yes it's better to cut out bread, pasta, and grains in general. Unfavorable carbohydrate should not exceed 25% of all the carbohydrate in any one meal. If you eat more than that you will ot be able to maintain the low insulin levels that are necessary to allow toy to lose excess stored body fat. Depending on your degree of sensitivity to carbohydrate you may find you need to exclude all unfavorable carbohydrate.
[/quote]
This is just what Cran stated ... ?

Regarding Fat: Total Fat required per block of protein is 3 grams.
So with no fat Protein, add 3 grams fat per 7 grams Protein.
With lo-fat (hidden fat) Protein, add 1.5 grams fat per 7 grams Protein.

By the way, thank you very much for your opinions, information, and assistance with all my questions!

Another question: I am trying to work out at least 3 times a week for 2 hours (weights and aerobic). My husband is into fitness (in amazing shape-eats very well-without doing the Zone-but he likes the concepts and pretty much does that as well without all the measuring and hours of calculations that I do), as well as he is studying Fitness and Nutrition at the University. I have been trying to cut my coffee drinking ( I use to drink 2-3 cups real Italian espresso, watered down, with a little cream and lots of sugar-American style-a day) to nothing or occasionally 1/2 a cup in the morning, with less than 1/4 tsp of cream, & 1 tsp of sugar (I tried the Fructose and there was not much sweet taste to it). I was really really trying to drink no coffee for a few days, and my husband insists that all the nutritionists and books say that caffeine in not bad for you (I explained it raises your insulin level-not good for staying in the Zone); he is the one who always harped on me about how I don't lose weight just because of how much coffee I drink, and how much sugar and fat (cream) I put in my coffee everyday (he bought me the Enervit (Zone brand for Europe) Fructose (not able to find any other sugar substitutes here).

My question: My husband thinks that if I am working out, on that day within 3 hours of working out, I can have my small coffee (caffeine), with very little sugar-fat, since it is the ONLY time (after pumping at the gym) that your muscles DO need the sugar to rebuild them. So, in this case, the insulin rise-sugar intake would be ok. What do you think? Would I still be able to 'stay in the Zone'?

[quote]
Posted By John on 05 May 2012 09:08 AM
[quote]
Posted By Sue on 05 May 2012 07:56 AM
Hi, yes it's better to cut out bread, pasta, and grains in general. Unfavorable carbohydrate should not exceed 25% of all the carbohydrate in any one meal. If you eat more than that you will ot be able to maintain the low insulin levels that are necessary to allow toy to lose excess stored body fat. Depending on your degree of sensitivity to carbohydrate you may find you need to exclude all unfavorable carbohydrate.
[/quote]
This is just what Cran stated ... ?
[/quote]

John,

To answer your question, the only thing displaying for me when I submitted the reply you quoted was the first post in this thread.

Paj;
See the Exercise thread - there is a discussion in that thread about the sall 30-45 minute window at post exercise.
However, that really only applies to extreme athletes / extreme, intense 45 minute or more exercise regimens.

I'm sorry Sue, but I don't understand your reply to my last (#3) question? Could you be so kind as to restate your answer? Thank you for your help.
Is my question too wordy or confusing (as I feel)?? Thank you again. Does it take everyone a while and many hours of calculating food items and recipes in the beginning, as it is for me?? By the way, I really am trying to change to eating even healthier-not just for losing weight in the moment; in fact, I have NEVER dieted in my life nor did I ever go to the gym until after having 2 babies (gaining the weight) and having my hormones, thyroid out of wack, along with slowing metabolism (comes with older age?) So, I don't mind the change, I just hope that I will get it right and see results in loss of weight and feeling better.

Thank you all for your input and help!

Does anyone know if it is better to use Oat Flour (grinding up Oats into a powder-flour in a blender) to use in baked goods (muffins or cookies) in place of regular or whole wheat flour called for in a recipe? Or is flaxseeds ground up into a flour healthier-or does it change the recipe too much and won't come out well? Does anyone do a combo of any of these?

Can fructose be used in place of white or brown sugar for the sweetner? Or perhaps applesauce?

I usually have to make everything myself, since many times I don't find all the ingredient choices, available in the U.S.A., where I live in Italy.

Lastly, I find in numerous recipes calling for Tumeric, which is said to be in Cayenne Pepper-neither of which I can find here in Italy! Isn't that a main ingredient found in Curry? I can find this spice here. Is that the same, and I can use Curry in place of Tumeric or Cayenne Pepper called for in a recipe? I have never tried Indian Curry food before, and my husband hates Curry spiced food. Is a little bit of it strong in a recipe?

Thank you again!

Thank you John. I did not see any Exercise thread attached. Could you try to resend it? Thank you. Maybe my very fit and althletic husband can only benefit from the caffeine and sugar after HIS workout?!!

If you go to the front page of the forums, there is a main topic "athletic performance" and then there is a thread titled "Exercise Thread".
http://www.zonediet.com/forums/aft/...pg/9#64550

One forum member has discusssed this "window" of opportunity in that thread.

As for calculating, I don't really spend a lot of time on it. I follow the block method, and at first I used the food block list found in the book. I was able to find a copy online and print it, and I always kept it on my fridge. I also downloaded a copy into a spreadsheet so that I could change the food amounts and the spreadsheet would recalculate blocks for me. Nowadays, it just comes so easy and naturally, and I still count blocks, but just don't have to refer to the list all the time.

Thank you Cranberry Cat (is that your name?) for your idea. Do you happen to have one of your sample spreadsheets available for viewing-so that I might get an idea of how you accomplish calculating, and recalculate with ease the various food blocks? Is it a program that must be downloaded for the computer? Thank you!
Paj

Sorry, I can't attach it to the message board, and I can't give out my email address (against forum rules). You can find a list on this site here: http://www.zonediet.com/portals/0/r..._guide.pdf

Years ago, when I did this, I was able to copy/paste it from the website, but I don't think it is set up that way anymore.

Oh, and my name isn't cranberrycat, that is just what I use in the forums ;)

Hi Paj,

My reply was addressing the question I quoted, that John had asked. :)

To answer your questions, 1. The more you can avoid blood sugar spikes the lower your insulin levels will be, and 2. It's not necessary to do all the counting and measuring to be successful with the Zone. Dr. Sears recommends keeping it simple by using Zone At-a-Glance instead of tedious measuring. It's easy and it works great. It's the method I used to lose 100 pounds. Here's a link to it: http://www.zonediet.com/tools/zone-classic

Hi Paj, Turmeric is not Cayenne Pepper. It is another name for Curcuma. It is slighlty spicy and it is often a part of curry spice. It is yellow in colour.

BTW, I am surprised you cannot find enough ingredients in Italy! Italy has much more decent, natural and healthy stuff that US. I would try to learn their way of cooking using their ingredients rather than trying to reproduce the American way of eating. Italians usually used lots of fresh, colourful vegetables and their diet (minus pasta) is very Zone friendly.

Thank you Bozena for your help with explaining Turmeric; I have never tried this before, nor Curry spice. In fact, another example of 'food items' not easily acquired in Italy (I have a list that I shop for when I visit in the States). Yes, we do eat much much healthier than we would in the States; although Italy is starting to carry things like a few American Fast food places, as well as some international products. But, for the most part, they lack a lot of items you can easily find in the States, as well as varieties and various conveniences such as product 'makeovers'-lowfat-nonfat, etc. possiblilities for various items-which, believe me, cuts your time and effort in meal preparations-especially when trying to balance your P,C, and F. On the other hand, we do gain the freshness and quality of natural foods that are long time absent in the States. So, yes, I eat much healthier (like I said in previous examples) than I used to living in the States, but my problem is in other areas of balancing Zone menus, as well as not being able to do buy the many products everyone lists in their Zone recipes, nor do we have the selection of Zone products that people are using in their menus!!! So, for me, I have to search for each item (many times seasonal or hard to find-if at all, and do everything else on my own. We have Biological stores here, but they are VERY LIMITED, and very expensive-in respects to the wide popularity and variety of many you have in the States (Whole Foods, Trader Joes, etc), as well as many supermarket and discount places available to you (Sams Club, CostCo, etc.), where again you find many items that are popular in a growing market for these things!
We don't. I live in a small town, and each town may or may not carry even peanut butter or brown sugar (one day it's there, then its gone for good, since not enough people want it)!! So, I do the best I can, and have learned over the years how to make my own buttermilk, sour cream, guacamole, sour dough bread, chocolate chip, peanut butter, sugar cookies, dough, bagels, etc. from scratch-from trying different recipes off the internet; I have become quite the baker (and probably gained more weight just in baking too much)! Anyway, I am trying to bake those items less, and trying new recipes and Zone menus. But, when you guys talk about specific Zone items or 'low-fat,' 'non-fat' products easily bought and ready to use for your menus to 'stay in the zone' (pastas, flour, bread, crackers, even bars or treats to suppliment your menus), I only have the basic ones- or very recently, for example, some Kumat, buckwheat pasta (ONE PKG SPECIAL ORDERED AND EXPENSIVE) offered to us. I found Quinoa and flax seeds, which I grind myself for the flour-but not sure what to do with it nor how much is good?
Again, yes, I can eat meats with olive oil, salads, fruits and vegetables, and very limited breads, pasta, brown rice, but-what else? Everyone else seems to bake and cook different things, use specific Zone friendly breads, granola, crackers, bars, pastas, milks, etc. in thier various menus.
And believe me, Italians eat well, but they DO eat DAILY breads, pastas, crackers, fatty meats (with lard is a specialty), salamis, and LOTS of various high fat cheeses-without 'fat free' or 'low fat' products-which is why we have almost no market for it here! Americans are into this in order to cut our high fat, high carb diets. So, I am somewhere stuck in the middle. I do like to cook and bake, and to try new things-that are still healthy. I would love to use ready made, convenience products that I could 'replace' the 'Zone unfriendly' products with. I like to learn new substitutions or ways to add protein, etc. to a recipe to make it 'healthier'-so, if I would like a blueberry muffin or pumpkin muffin or peanut butter cookie (after the gym) on a special occasion, at least I made it myself, and substituted the white flour, sugar, and margarine with a better choice, and/or added protein powder, flaxseeds, almond slivers to it to make it healthier. This is the info. and help that I need. I don't mind putting in the time and making everything from scratch; just that I need to know what to exchange and how much of it.
I have spent hours and days going over menus and recipes that are NEVER the same for my products. So, I have to constantly recalculate the C, P, and F content of each item, change the measurements, and add other ones to try to get the equivalent blocks in that easy Smoothy or Protein bars recipe that everyone is posting. A lot of work! Also, I made a few muffin recipes that were so awful-(sorry, do appreciate the sharing), that for all those calculations and work-what is the point to eat a piece of paper with NO taste) just to stay in the Zone when you eat a muffin? I prefer to make a traditional healthy version (bluberry or chocolate)muffin recipe-adding or changeing a few ingredients to make it healthier-without going overboard and sacrafising the taste. I agree and prefer to make all my own baked good (doughs, cookies, muffins, cakes, brownies, etc.) rather than to buy them, is much better, and you can change things-within limits, in order to make them better for you. Does anyone know the rule of thumb when changing or substituting items, such as: flours, sugar, butter vs. oil, etc.? If you add too much oil in a recipe calling for butter or margarine, it could result in an oily product, or how much oat flour you can exchange for a recipe calling for white flour, or how much or which type of sugar, including fructose or applesauce you can substitute for white sugar in a recipe? I tried applesauce in one of the muffin recipes posted (that originally came out like cardboard with no taste-and used only a small amount of a sugar substitue) and reduced in half the cooking time; this helped a lot, but if too much applesauce is used, it ends up coming out tasting like applesauce!
I truly hope that I am NOT offending anyone by my honesty in sharing; I just want to be clear so perhaps someone who understands what I am saying, can help me with their greater knowledge and experience than I have! Of course, it would be easier to say to just eat Zone 'healthy' and cut all baked goods, etc., or to just simply buy zone and other ready made products; but, in reality, due to various circumstances, if I want to make this a permanant healthy Zone lifestyle of eating, I need to allow for those instances (holidays, kids parties, etc,) where once in a while, if I want to make something myself-wheather pasta, bread, or baked goods, I know how to substitute and recalculate to stay in or close to the Zone-and still enjoy various recipes and tastes.
I hope I didn't ramble too much. I just wanted you, Bozena, to understand the differences among cultural eating habits here, and what I meant in product availability; if I ate like the typical Italian-I would NOT be in the Zone! I have lived here for more than 13 years, and I cook and eat more Italian than American (which has also made me more 'prejudice' in home cooking verses store bought crap-like the typically proud and picky Italian you find), but I also like to eat other diverse things (which typical Italians DON'T), and I am trying to stear clear of all the white breads, pastas, and rices-and learn to exchange healthier ones myself when I do want to have them. I am still American, so every now and again, I do LOVE Mexican food ( I make myself), and my traditions of Peanut butter cookies, Pumpkin anything, etc. once in a while!

Hi Paj - I can see your point, I do. I live in UK and the foods we have here are different to the American ones as well. You can have a feeling, reading many posts here written by Americans that Zone diet is all about special foods, Zone-lab produced breads etc but in fact it is back to your roots, back to real food and eating. I read here how hard it is to find grass-fed beef or milk, yougurt, butter from grass-fed cows but this is only American problem more or less. In Europe we feed cattle mostly with grass or fermented grass so we do not have that problem. I've never in my life bought or tasted any Zone-lab food and, to me, it would be cheating. I am all into "go back to nature, go back to normal". I cook with ingredients whch are available in the UK - we have peanut butter here, but nothing like "turkey bacon" or "chicken sausage". We do not have Costco or Trader Joe. I sometime calculate blocks but usually I just fill my plate with a palm size portion of protein and the rest is vegetables and dash of olive oil. If I want a treat I get a square or two of dark chocolate, other times I have fruits. I do not religiously follow the diet but I practically eliminated breads and starchy veg like potato. But, when we go out, or sometimes at home when I feel like it, I have a brownie or something like that. If I feel I need to lose some weight I go stricter for two weeks. But I generally like this diet because it is so natural. It makes you eat more like you should in the first place. I remember, when I was a child, that's how we used to - perhaps we would eat breads and potato but not in the amount served these days. When you were hungry you were told to wait till dinner - certainly you would not be encouraged to snack on chocolate bar! Your lunchbox will be a healthy sandwich (bread was not made of GMO grains!) and apple. So do not get frustarted - just take it easy.
Also, incidentally, you will find Italian Zone info in this site. There is a lady doctor, Italian, who cooperated with the Zone labs and she has contributed lots of recepies of meals made with Italian ingredients.

Hi Bozena, thanks for your encouragement; appreciated. We have a very good friend of ours-Italian but lived many years in Alberdeen and England (don't remember where). He had a Costco near his home-both in Scotland and England. Maybe, you like me, where you live there isn't these kind of easy access wherehouses. When I go to the States, I always have a list of items to bring back with me that I am unable to find here (for example, we have the Enerzone Soy Protein Powder, but I am unable to special order the one with Whey Powder, and with breast cancer in my family, I prefer to use soy products sparingly). So, I bulk up on many little items that as an American we take for granted since it is so easy and convenient to find at the supermarket. Yes, I am glad to have the healthier foods here, but like Customer Service and many electronic and convenient items here-it is too expensive, rare, and special ordered-if at all possible. Since I can only make a trip to the States once a year, I try to bulk up on all things at once. I recently discovered so many new Superfoods and things I had never heard of or tried before, that I would like to experiment with. By the way, anything Cinnamon and Brownies are my favorite and nonexistent here-something else I have tried numerous recipes to make-and make healthier for the occasion that I would like it. There isn't even a word in Italian for Pies or Brownies! It is very hard to describe these things to Italians-but I think if they would have them available here (many here think that I am 'the best baker' of any dessert since I have probably tried to replicate almost every cake, muffin, brownie, and cookie possible in the past), we could have an obesity epedemic here as well!! Since I have started the Zone seriously, I have pretty much stopped all baking, and realize all the women I know that are very thin, either are lousy cooks, hate to cook, don't have time to cook, and eat very light and quick meals (salads and meats or fish, etc!!
By the way, do you know the name of the lady docter who works with the Zone, her email, or where she lives in Italy? I could probably ask her some things-translating ingredients or where to find things perhaps? The big problem for my eating is I was NEVER raised eating anything fish other than fish stix. My kids, because of my husband-and even weekly menu at school-eat lots of fresh fish-some of which the smell alone could make me vomit!! I have pushed myself over the last few years to eat tuna and Salmon weekly (1-3 times)-but I will never order it out, since Italians cook it with almost nothing ('gusto del'mare' means they prefer the taste of the sea-very plain); I season mine and cook it drier!! I was raised with 'meat and potatoes,' so I have had to retrain my eating habits since moving here many years ago, and am thankful for that.
I also know how different the milk is here; I have never been lactose intolerant in my life until I moved here!!! The American milk is so watered down that it is NOT even milk anymore! I, and every American who has visited us, have had to switch to lactose free milk when in Italy!! Plus, the milk here expires in a few days-never for weeks!
Thanks for sharing.
Paj

I live in the states, and I totally love Bozena's post!

Get back to nature, lets eat what God intended for us to eat, rather than all of this manufactured stuff! I just shop mainly at our local market, and I don't have any specialty stores available to me, so I rely on what I can find. Farm markets are great places to go when in season! And, sometimes a lot less expensive than the grocery store.

Yes cran, gets back to the phrase I ran across last week: "If it rots, eat it" (before it rots - lol).

LOL!

Thanks Cran and John for supporting my view I read the forums almost every day but decided not to participate too often as I see too many posts which in my opinion totally miss the point.... But wanted to give my words of encouragements to somebody who feels lost and unable to find the balance. Anyway, Paj, have a look at this site. There is a section titled Italian Zone or something like that. I will do the search and post a link here

Paj, I am not sure how well your Italian is but here is a link to the Italian Zone diet representative Dr Daniela Morandi: http://www.danielamorandi.it/

Thanks for the link Bozena. I will check it out!