I found a brand of canned mackerel fillets that are just delicious. The only thing making me hesitate is the fact they are packed in soy bean oil.

Dietary info from a can is as follows.

Total fat 4g
Saturated fat 1g

Total carbs 0g

Protein 23g


Is this stuff zone favorable?


Thanks.

Hi Rah!

Buy mackerel packed in water or olive oil. Soy bean oil is polyunsaturated fat (omega-6 fat) and we try to avoid adding it to Zone meals.

Soybean oil helps generate the "bad" eiconsaoids, and therefore promotes inflammation.

Alexy

I've been eating a lot more soy since reading "The Soy Zone" but I'm now wondering about the omega 6 in soy products, like tofu, or any of the processed things like soy cheese, etc., that are not fat free. I did see on the internet that the American Heart Association feels that omega 6 fats should not make up more than 5% - 10% of the total daily calories. I don't remember seeing any mention of the omega 6 content of soy in "The Soy Zone" and I'm wondering if I should cut back on soy in favor of lean meat. I guess my question is which bad fat is better to eat ---- the omega 6 in my soy cheese and tofu or the saturated fat in lean meats and low fat cheese?

Larry, animal products contain omega 6 and AA\. Soy doesn't contain AA. Some soy products contain omega 6 and some soy products are fat free (meaning they don't contain omega 6). Choose wisely, whether or not you choose Soy Zoen or regular Zone, and try to keep your consumption of omega 6 and AA to as little as possible. Saturated fat actually won't do as much damage as Omega 6, as I understand it. I'd keep soy cheese and dairy cheese to a minimum, too.

Just a note that grass fed, naturally raised animal products, as our ancestors did, whom Dr. Sears bases a lot of his work have much, much lower AA and a much, much better ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3, just as our maker intended for us to have.

I looked at nutritiondata.com and one protein block's worth of tofu has the following -

Total Omega-3 fatty acids 181 mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 1602 mg


But 2/3 tsp of olive oil (the amount of fat needed for a fat free protein block) is -

Total Omega-3 fatty acids 22.8 mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 292.6 mg

The ratio is better for tofu but the total omega 6 is much higher. And I assume that we're more concerned with the total intake of omega 6 and not the omega 6 to omega 3 ratio of any particular food. Is that correct?


The amount of omega 3 and omega 6 in one protein block of lean grass fed beef is negligible -

Total Omega-3 fatty acids 5.9 mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 22.4 mg

The amount of of omega 3 and omega 6 in grain fed beef is negligible, as well.

I often see the argument that grass fed beef has twice the omega 3 than grain fed. That appears to be true but the total amount is so miniscule that I doubt that it matters much. It has nowhere near the omega 3 of one protein block of salmon -

One ounce wild salmon (7g protein, 2g fat) -

Total Omega-3 fatty acids 724 mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 61.6 mg


I guess the bottom line is I'm now going to really limit my tofu and soy cheese eating. I have found fat free soy hotdogs and meat crumbles that taste very good so I'll try to stick to those and add olive oil, avocado, etc. I also can get a fat free mozzarella (milk based).

Larry, a couple tips, focus on eliminating omega 6 rather than the ratio. Look for thre low fat tofu. It comes in both firm and extra firm.

my most important fat is olive oil. Usually it's extra-light-tasting, which isn't particularly nutritional, I know, but it's what works for me.

I have one tablespoon of olive oil for my fat with most meals. In fact, nearly all meals. (I eat pollock (fish) a lot, and pour the OO over it. Love it this way!)

Now I find that OO has what sounds like a fair amount of omega-6s.

I'm confused!

I thought I was doing great in avoiding omega-6s until I learnt this information from John about OO actually having omega-6s ... :-( :-(

Unless even 3 or 4 tablespoons of OO everyday isn't an issue????

I'm hoping there aren't other hidden sources of omega-6s?

I've cut out all regular/conventional meats bez of AA, will only eat grass-fed meats when I can afford them ...

Sarah

Not me, this John, lol ...

Sarah, if yo look at the breakdown of fats in most fatty foods, you'll see they contain some omega 3, 6 and 9 (monounsaturated) fats. Olive oil, avocados, almonds, etc. have more monounsaturated fats, which makes them better choices. careful not to eat too much fat, or it can slow you loss of stred fat. A tablespoon (that's 9 fat blocks) at every meal is a bit too much. Best place tto use a tablespoon is in meals the are fat free.

Hi Sue, I eat a lot of pollock which is fat-free, so I use one tablespoon, but I'll cut back on the fat from now on a little ... I thought if I drop a carb, I need 12 grams of fat?

Sarah

Hi Sarah,

You would drop 1 carbohydrate block if you have unfocused hunger 4 hours after meal. You wouldn't necessarily have to add extra fat.

Hi Sue - that low fat tofu is a great idea. I didn't know they made it.

They have fat-free tofu ... :-)

At least around here they do ...

Thanks Sue, so it's back to 9 grams of fat per meal from now on! This is helpful. So much information to learn here!

Sarah

thanks, Sarah. Fat free is even better. I'll look into it.

I've had fat free too, and it's really good. And, I don't mean the silky fat free tofu in the aseptic packaging, I'm talking about the kind in the tub packed in water. I can't find a consistent source, though. It's usually hit or miss.

Does anyone know how much Omega 6 should be eaten? The Zone products use fats that are moderately high in Omega 6, compared to olive oil. I usually eat one serving of Zone Cereal and 1.5 Zone Bars each day. I also get most of my added fat from almond butter. From the table below, I can see that I could really reduce my Omega 6 intake by replacing the Zone products with snacks that are made up of lean or no-fat protein plus carb plus olive oil, and by replacing almond butter with olive oil. Is it necessary to do this? I estimate that doing this would take me from 8500 mg to 5100 mg of Omega 6 per day (I eat 17 blocks a day).

Also, I don't understand why canola oil is not listed in the Best Choice category by Dr. Sears. It has less saturated fat than olive oil and many of the fats and oils listed as Best Choices. It also has less Omega 6 than many of the Best Choice fats. ???


Omega 6 contents in 2 fat blocks (3g fat,the amount that needs to be added to 1 zero-fat protein block)

---2/3 tsp olive oil - 293 mg, Best Choice category per Dr. Sears

---2/3 tsp canola oil - 559 mg, Fair Choice category per Dr. Sears (Zone cereal)

---2/3 tsp peanut oil - 960 mg, Best Choice category per Dr. Sears (Zone roasted peanut bar)

---1 tsp almond butter - 633 mg, Best Choice category per Dr. Sears (Zone chocolate fudge bar)

I've been wondering--how much Omega-6 is too much? So I'm hoping someone will respond ... it is interesting that your Omega-6s add up to what seems like an awful lot of mgs!

17 blocks? Oh, my! :-) You must be usually tall or thick-boned or exercise an awful lot. LOL.

Sarah

Try to eat as little added omega 6 fat as possible by stleckng to lean proteins and not adding oils that are predominatntly composed of omega 6 fat, such as pat vegetable oils.. You're not going to be able to elimate every bit of omega 6 because, as you're finding out with you're analysis here, it's in just about every good that contains fat. It is an essential fatty acid, meaning your body must get it from a dietary source, but thR tiny amounts you actually require wil necessity gotten I'm the foods you eat without having to specifically ingest a predominantly omega 6 god. Incidentally, (and i realize this is not what you're talking about here) it's a mistake to think one needs to ingest oils which contain omega 3 and 6 in the precise ratios which the body will thrive on because your body is already getting all the omega 6 it requires from the basic foods you choose. Eliminating the predominantly omega 6 oils and supplementing with enough Omega Rx to dilute excess AA to put yourself at the ideal AA/RPA will be your goal.


As for your hesitation after doing the omega 6 comparison of certain foods Dr. Sears chooses the foods he labels best for the Zone after taking multiple factors into consideration. You can read more about this in the book "Top 100 Zone Foods" I would not see reason to have reservations about ingesting the "Best" Zone fats and eating Zome products, within the guidelines of the Zone diet amounts, based on their omega 6 content,.

Urgent plea to Tech Support, could you please fix the typos in my pervious post? My fingers and my
self- correcting phone feature seem to have ganged up on me today!

Thanks, Sue. That's very helpful, even with the typos.

American Heart Association feels that omega 6 fats should not make up more than 5% - 10% of the total daily calories. I was just wondering if Dr. Sears says anything different. ????

Almond butter has about twice the omega 6 of olive oil. If I were to eat only almond butter and egg whites for my protein and fat for one day, my omega 6 calories for the day would be -

***0.6g omega6 X 17 blocks = 10g omega 6 which is about 90 calories. That would be about 5% of my 1700 calorie daily intake.

If I were to eat only tofu for my protein and fat for one day my omega 6 calories for the day would be -

***1.6g omega6 X 17 blocks = 27g omega 6 which is about 245 calories (14% of my daily 1700 calorie intake).

So it looks like if I stay within the guidelines of eating mostly Favorable Fats and if I rely on low-fat or non-fat soy products, I'm well within the 5% - 10% AMA recommendation.

That's good to know, re: almonds vs. olive oil. Helpful.

I apologize if I was a bit rude in one of my posts about the 17 blocks by the way!

Sarah

Hi Sarah - I didn't think you were rude, and I am tall.

:D All my best... larry

Hi, great, glad to hear!

Sarah

I had heard that macadamia nuts were very low in Omega 6. I looked them up and they really are. 2 fat blocks (3g fat) only have 52 mg of Omega 6. I'm going to stock up.

awesome!

sarah



[quote]
Posted By larry on 02 Jul 2012 06:25 PM
I had heard that macadamia nuts were very low in Omega 6. I looked them up and they really are. 2 fat blocks (3g fat) only have 52 mg of Omega 6. I'm going to stock up.
[/quote]

Good for you.
They are pricey in USA.

They sure are! I have a bulk section at the grocery store ...

Why are peanuts so much cheaper than these nuts? :-(

Sometimes it feels like everything that's really good for me, is more expensive!

Obviously, it's a lot cheaper down the road ...

Sarah

Yeah, I hear you, Sarah!

Peanuts are not really even nuts at all! They are legumes.

I remember when I first started zoning, I had trouble even tossing out my egg yolks, because it seemed like money down the drain. And, it seemed so terribly expensive to buy the favorable ingredients. Now, I don't even worry about it. Processed food is much cheaper, but I was not well eating it.

Hi Cranberrycat,

Oh, they're not even nuts ... LOL.

Yes, I can understand why you'd find it difficult to toss out your egg yolks back then ... :-)

I still struggle with how expensive it is sometimes to buy favorable ingredients, but yes, you are right, you're a lot better off health-wise, and you FEEL a lot better too ...

I compare how much I spent on groceries with how much someone else I know spend on his groceries, and I spend a lot more on groceries than he does. More than double his grocery bill!

On the other hand, he spends a lot of money on entertainment. I am frugal there because my health comes first.

Sarah

The average older American takes up to 31 medication pills per day!
My wife and I (55 and 50) take none.
Figure what the cost of medications, doctors, etc. would have been when you get older,
and all the little bit of extra money you spent for healthy food,
adds up to less than what you would have been paying for sick care, later on.

Sometimes people never really think about the healthcare costs, because they are covered under an insurance plan, or Medicare. But, in the long run, we all pay for it in some form or another.

My husband and I, both late 40's, do not have the need for any prescription medication, either. And, we both have huge family history of hypertension, heard disease, diabetes. So, the stakes are against us. But, hopefully we can maintain our health by spending our money wisely on food, thereby decreasing the need for medications and maintenance of chronic disease later in life.

Well said Cranberrycat.

So this is the thread that I'd been looking for! :-)

292.6 mg of omega-6 for only 2/3 tsp of olive oil? I often use one tablespoon of olive oil, to go with my pollock which is nearly fat-free.

so that makes, I don't know, rounding it up ... 300 x 3 for three 2/3 tsps = 900 mg. And round up more to make 3 tsp = 1100 mg??

I don't have the energy to be accurate, but, that's for just one meal ... I eat probably 5 tablespoon of OO per day. And still losing weight by the way ... LOL.

So the weight thing isn't the problem, my concern right now is health-wise because of my allergies and congestion.

And that sounds like an awful lot of omega-6s to me ... I'm trying to lower my inflammation but as Cranberrycat comments, we still need some omega-6s. on the other hand, I'm going off ZFO.

I had been gouging on almond ground mixed with a little OO and microwaved to brown it, I love it with seasalt. I'm seeing I have to find something else if I want to lower my omega-6s temporarily while I struggle with my ZFO.

So ... advice???

And, hey! I can email Dave too ... the scientist ... LOL. So doing so right now ...

Alexy

That is surprising to me. I think you can't just go by the raw number. You might have to do a comparison between olive oil an other oils, and then you may see a difference, in that olive oil has a lower omega-6 content than other fats/oils.

Again, as stated on another thread, if one goal in the Zone is to reduce the amount of omega-6 in our diets and change the omega-3/6 ratio, then wouldn't it be nice to have an actual chart here on this website that shows a table of fats with their omega3/6 content (and AA as was stated on a different discussion thread)? Of course, we also have the food block index to follow, but that does not have actual amounts of AA and omega 3/6 listed. It would be valuable to have the actual figures at our fingertips.

Hi Sarah - the answer is macadamia nuts. 1/2 ounce (14 g) has 10 g of fat and only 182 mg of Omega 6. Compare to olive oil -- 1 TBSP (14 g) has 14 g of fat and 1318 mg of Omega 6. I try to get at least half my fat from macadamia nuts.

Hey Larry;
Just curious, how much Omega-6 in coconut oil?
(Coconut oil is a medium-chain sat fat, as opposed to a long-chain like most all other sat fats.)
Medium-chain sat fats are converted directly to ATP unlike long-chain sat fats.)
NOTE: To all others reading coconut oil (medium chain sat fats) are still considered not favorable by Dr. Sears.

Very nice thread.. I think macademia nuts are very expensive but because we don't eat many they are cheaper in a way.. I use almonds and o.o. mainly but I would like to know about coconut like John asked.

Hi John - Iooked up coconut oil on nutritiondata.com 1 TBSP (14 g) has 14 g of fat and 243 mg of Omega 6. It's about the same as macadamia nuts (10 g of fat yields 183 mg of Omega 6).

I've been wondering about using coconut oil and I love coconut butter. Dr Sears says it's not a favorable fat but there are a lot of places that say it's very good for us.

Warning: Coconut Oil is not favored by the Zone nor Dr. Sears!
That said, my wife and I have used it and Olive Oil almost exclusively for a year now.
And my recent blood work has been excellent.
Olive oil, Extra Virgin, for all unheated, uncooked uses.
Coconut oil for all heating, cooking uses.
.
As a side note: Last year and all previous years in my life, including 7 years on the Zone, some summers stricter than others,
I have always burned very easily. And using, the last couple of years a natural sunscreen, no toxic metals, etc. from Dr. Mercola.
However, in January, I read that regular use of Coconut oil (ingesting) can help with sun protection,
while still allowing one to get optimal Vitamin D without supplements, that sunscreens, even Dr. Mercola's natural sunscreen, block.
.
So this summer, I gave it a test. As much as we kayak in the summer, and usually from about 10 am to 3 pm on Saturdays and some Sundays,
out in the sun at its highest and worst with reflection off of the water to boot -- this year I did not put any of Dr. Mercola's (or any other sunscreen) on,
either before, during, or after kayaking.
Though I always brought a bottle with me, just in case I felt my skin starting to get red.
Not once this year did my skin even get even a bit pink, let alone any red or burn.
Nothing.
.
I have never tried, but rubbing a bit on the skin also helps the skin in many additional ways, as well.
Wonder why any of the tropical people that live on Coconut oil/tropical oils, (medium chain sat fat),
never get burned, often live long lives as a rule and not an exception,
rarely have any heart disease, etc.? .....

Wow ...

Alexy

I'm just gonna say, very interesting stuff!

IMO its another issue regarding how an unfavorable zone food actually has some very good benefits.

Yeah!

And I am curious as to exactly why coconut oil isn't seen as being great, when it doesn't operate the same way as other similiar fats ... it's not from animals, after all; it's from coconuts. The saturated fat in coconut oil doesn't act the same way as the saturated fat in animal fats.

Sarah

Coconut oil is rich in saturated fat and may be used in moderation. There are better oils to use. The fats in coconut oil are in form of shorter-chain fatty acids that may increase LDL cholesterol levels and bind to toll-like receptor 4 (TLR-4) to induce inflammation. Coconut oil also contains higher amounts of MCT (medium chain triglycerides) that go directly to the liver via the portal vein and rapidly consume stores of liver glycogen. Without adequate levels of liver glycogen it’s difficult to replenish blood sugar levels for optimal brain function and satiety. Also, the oil has much lower amounts of monounsaturated fats that are highly recommended on the Zone.


Bottom line: Coconut oil does have some advantages, i.e., easier digestion, anti-microbial and oxidative potential, and contains very little if any Omega-6 fatty acids