I switched from lifting 5 days a week plus minimum 3 days of cardio with 2000 calories a day (liked muscle I was gaining but very bloated) made up of protein and carbs to crossfit in April. I started zone eating in may at 10 blocks (small female) after reading the crossfit journal on the zone diet. I felt good and could definitely see lean muscle but hungry all the time. I did lose 1/2 inch in biceps since quit lifting and started crossfit. But look leaner too. After reading mastering the zone and a few more zone books and doing zone tools I discovered I should be at 11 blocks and some blocks like lettuce I should be eating way more than what cross fit journal has for a block.

So since the 12th of June I have been keeping food journal. Since I increased to 11 blocks I have felt bloated, but also starving 2 to 3 hours later (sometimes in an hour even). Yet after I eat I am usually full if I eat salad or satisfied. I drink at least 8 glasses of water a day but usually more (12-15). I also gained 1/2 inch in waist since keeping food journal but that still puts me at 11 protein blocks. I want to gain more lean muscle without the bloat and the hungry ness. Plus i think i am more crabby lately too. What do I need to do? My activity level is crossfit 6 days a week and at least two of the rest days in the month I do a mile to two run. Help! Here is typical day:

8:30 breakfast 2 blocks feel great til 11 /11:30ish but can drink water and make it to noon.
12:00 lunch 2 blocks full but sometimes hungry at 1:30 or 2:30.
3:00 - 3:30 snack 1 block
4 or 4:30 Workout
After workout snack 1 block
7ish dinner 3 blocks
10 or 10:30 bedtime snack 2 blocks
Any suggestions?

I had similar issues and was advised to add an additional balanced block to my daily total and to add extra fat blocks as described in Mastering the Zone.

I believe it took my body longer than usual to accustom myself to the Zone Diet because I was slightly underweight when I started. I also think that I had a problem with my digestion which was solved by taking Betaine HLC. As I grew more accustomed to the diet and as my digestion improved, I was able to reduce the fat intake to just slightly over the normal for the diet.

So, you might benefit from adding some extra good fat. It's very common for people that are not trying to lose weight to take a little extra good fat. If you have digestive discomfort with the bloating, the Betaine HCL should help a lot. It takes a couple of weeks to notice a difference.

I hope this helps. I'm not qualified to give you advice but I guess I did anyway. You'll probably be hearing from Sue. She's great and knows her stuff.

Stephanie, did you use the Zone calculator on this website? Make sure you are using the right activity level to determine your blocks.

It is hard to eat "enough" lettuce, so perhaps the problem is a "volume" problem? Try to mix things up with the salad to add some density to your meals, then the volume will come down, and perhaps that will help with the bloating.

I have similar problems eating salad, I am quite satisfied after eating, but hungry soon after. Generally, if one of my blocks in the salad is from beans (garbanzos), then I can feel satisfied longer after eating the salad, and I don't feel so bloated from eating the huge volume of food.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did use the calculations under tools from this site and did very active for my activity after reading that's what other crossfiters were using. I have added an extra fat block and tried an extra Carb block after reading mastering the zone, but that did not help. I still am starving after eating even if I eat beans or veggies and not a salad. I am eating very healthy and large quantities and starving yet my waist went up 1/2 inch? For instance tonight I ate 3oz chicken, 3 cups broccoli, an apple and 9 almonds plus two cups of water and an hour and half later I was starving and wanting to eat everything in site ( I didn't though). I feel great and not tired just bloated and starving! What to try now?

Hi Stephanie. I'm also new to the Zone, maybe a couple of months ahead of you. I added a lot more fat than you are doing and I was advised to eat an additional carb block at each meal since, like you, I felt up and focused with the hunger (feeling tired and unfocused means too many carbs).

You might try this -

-Add 1/2 block of carbs to your meals
-Add two fat blocks per balanced block (i.e. 6 extra almonds to your 1-block snack, 18 extra almonds to you 3-block meal)
-If this extra fat doesn't work after a day or so, add another fat block to every balanced block
-You might also try the Betaine HCL for better digestion / absorption

I originally made a mistake in calculating the extra fat blacks and was eating 5 additional fat blocks for each balanced block. As I became more accustomed to the diet and because of the Betaine HCL, I gradually lowered my fat to where I wasn't adding any extra. After a couple of days, I started getting the hunger again so I added a little extra fat. Now I take 1 or 2 extra blocks per meal/snack if I feel I need it.

The Zone will make you burn fat for fuel but I feel that if you don't have any to spare, you'll get hungry. I also think that the minimum body fat % we can attain is based on our own genetics so we can't all get as cut as we'd like to but we can get lean and healthy.

Stephanie:

Depending on the size of the apple, that might be 2 blocks of carbs. And 3 cups of cooked broccoli is, I think, also 2 blocks of carbs.
It sounds to me like to have too many carbs. If you are sleepy two hours after eating, then too many carbs is your culprit.

If you are awake, but hungry, then you don't have too few carbs (or too few calories). I recommend moving away from apples and towards berries.
Strawberries, blackberries, raspberries and blueberries are the lowest glycemic index of all fruits. This may help you feel more full for a longer time.

Since you are/were lifting weights 5 days a week and doing cardio as well, I suspect your activity level is higher than you believe. Most women
require 11 blocks per day (Dr. Sears' minimum for ALL adults). And, you are exercising quite a bit. You may simply need to add blocks to your day.

Some people also find that eating a bunch of 2-block snacks throughout the day rather than 3 meals + 2 snacks is more effective.

Finally, are you taking fish oil and polyphenols? After 1 hour of exercise, you will start to produce cortisol, which will reverse the anti-inflammatory
effects of the Zone and may be leading to your hunger.

- Matt

Thanks Larry and Matt. I am not tired so its not to many carbs and according to my zone book broccoli takes 3 cups for one block so the apple would count as 2, meaning only three blocks. I do use a lot of berries. I have not used fish oil and polyphenols. I will try adding more fat.

Stephanie,

A 3 or 4 block Zone meal should prevent hunger, and keep you feeling good with plenty of energy, for 4 to 6 hours. It's not a surprise that your breakfast is leaving you hungry by late morning. The typical 2 block Zone meal will only last a few hours. Tto determine your current protein/block requirement put your stats into the Zone calculator and choose the "very active" activity level. Try changing your breakfast to 3 blocks and your bedtime snack to 1 block. Part if your hunger could be from your actual carbohydrate choices. Carbohydrate sensitivity varies greatly among individuals. While some people can feel great after a Zone balanced meal containing 3 cups broccoli and 1 apple, others may not. Part of the Zone diet is adjusting it to meet your needs. Use the 4 hour hunger test. If you're not hungry 4 hours after a meal then nothing needs to be changed. If you're hungry and have poor mental focus drop one carbohydrate block from your meals. If toy're hungry and feeling good with good mental focus, add one carbohydrate block to meals. if yoy'd line to post a detailed did diary for several days, indicating how you feel 4 hours after each meal, I'll be happy to take a look and make specific suggestions to elunate your hungerand bloating. BTW, the bloating would mist likely BR from your food choices, not from the lifting. It's not necessary to stop lifting to be successful with the Zone diet.

In addition, during the first few weeks of the Zone duet as you begin to burn stored fat some people temporarily feel sluggish, out if sorts, even have flulike symptoms from the initial release of arachidonic acid that has been sitting in the fat cells. These symptoms can be reduced by temporarily increasing your Omega Rx dose. Speaking of Imega Rx, I assume you're taking it. If not, miw's yhe time to start. It's a crucial part of the Zone Diet. The Zobe is all about lowering cellular inflammation and Omega Rx dilutes this inflammation.

Stephanie, the typos, sorry! I know the Zone inside and our, but I can't type! :)

Sue:

Some of your typos are humorous. I especially like that you called it the "Zobe" diet. ;)

-Matt

Hey Matt! I agree, LOL. You know, I thought smart phones were supposed to eventually "learn" as you correct your same mistakes multiple times (you should see how many times I find I've typed Zine and actually caught it in time to correct it!). But, unfortunately, I can't blame it all on my phone. "Low fat" and "reduced fat" are two more bad ones for me (you can guess what "fat" turns out to be...) . Hey, I try. :/ :)

Sue,
I did do the calculation for very active and it put me at 11 blocks. I just added 1 extra carb block today and fat block so I will also try changing my morning breakfast to three blocks and night time snack to 1block and then in a day or two I will post a detailed food diary for you to look at. I haven't taken the omega rx but will definitely get them ordered. Thanks for the suggestions and I will get back to you.

Hi Stephanie,

Dr. Sears suggests people do a second calculation after a couple of weeks of following the Zone diet, because the first one can be skewed by retained fluid due to one's previous way of eating. After two weeks of eating the Zone diet 24/7, a person will usually have lost any retained fluid.

So, how does one actually eat in the Zone 24/7 when he/she is having difficulty achieving the Zone? I think Stephanie needs to find a solution so that she can GET in the Zone.

Stephanie, I was re-reading your first post. Were you doing well in the Zone BEFORE you made the more Zone-favorable changes? Sounds to me like you were doing fine when you first started, but then when you switched to eating more of the low-density veggies is when you began to struggle?

Much of what you have said in some of these posts might be indicating to me that you are not necessarily carb sensitive, and that you have the ability to tolerate more carb and/or higher density carbs.

Also, what are you having before and after your workouts? You may want to check out some of the info that the tech support has recently posted on another thread about that window of opportunity after workouts in which a higher glycemic snack may be helpful. If you are not feeding your body what it needs at this opportune time, that might explain why the rest of your day is not going well, either.

Hi Cranberry,

The answer is to start over.

In Stephanie's case, she's made changes in activity and nutrition and we have no journal to look at yet. Memory is a tricky thing. For making adjustments it's best to have solid documentation to work with. The best thing for her to do at this point is start over. The first step is to calculate hercurrent protien requirement, the next is to keep a food journal noting what specific foods she eats, and how much of each, plus how she's feeling 4 hours after meals. If she's still having difficulty in a week or so, she will then have a documented baseline to work from as she makes adjustments.

I prefer to think of it in a different way. "Starting over" gives me the impression that what was done previously was a waste of time. I don't think that is the case. Stephanie has posted some valuable info so far. I think it is important to build on the knowledge that is already there. :)

Actually starting over is Dr. Sears' excellent advice in a case like this. I don't view anyone's efforts as wasted time.

Each to their own. I just Hope that the advice here is helpful for Stephens. Cheers!

OK sorry buys weekend but thanks for the replies. Before the zone I felt bloated but not hungry. I ate fruit only before and after a workout and then all other carbs at other three meals. Carbs were veggies to bread, beans, etc. Usually 8-15 grams more carbs than protein. But didn't eat fat like in the zone.
When I started the zone I didn't feel bloated and lost an inch in my stomach and felt great. I think hungry sometimes at about three hours but I didn't write it down so dont recall, but use to eating about every three to three in a half hours too. I thought I wasn't bloating because I took out bread and oatmeal etc. I did use 1 packet of instant oatmeal when first started until I read books and read they were unfavorable. Now I feel bloated again even though I am using favorable carbs.

Here is my food journal
1/2 c cottage cheese, 1/2 c blueberries, 8 cherries,6 almonds - felt great but hungry 3 he's later
2 oz pork, spinach/lettuce (measured off bag to equal 9 grams),1/2 c salsa, 6 almonds - hungry 2 hers later
Cheestick, 1/2 apple, 3 almonds
1/2hr to 1hr later workout
1 cup skim milk and 3 almonds within 1/2 hr of workout
3 oz chicken, steam able broccoli (1 whole bag serving says 8 grams), 1 apple, 6 cashews- hungry 2 hrs
later
3oz ground elk, 2 cups popcorn, 1 peach, 6 almonds- went to bed so not sure how would feel

Now after Sue's suggestion of adding a Carb any Cranberrycat's add unfavorable carb
1 c milk, 4 oz egg whites, 1/2 cup blueberries, 1/2 packet oatmeal, 12 almonds- great not hungry at even at 4 hrs.
1 oz chicken, 1oz cheese, 1 bag steamable broccoli, 1/2 c salsa, 1/2 nectarine, 12 almonds- hungry 3 he's later
1/4 c cottage cheese, 1/2 pear, 6 almonds
Hour later workout
1 c milk(skim), 2.5 oz egg whites, 6 almonds- hungry 1/2 later
3 oz pork, 1 c strawberries, 1 whole bag steam able green beans, 8 cherries, 18 almonds-hungry 2 hers later
1 oz pork, 1 cup strawberries, 6 almonds

1 cup skim milk, 4 oz egg whites, 1 packet oatmeal, 9 almonds -hungry 3 hrs later
2 oz lean steak, 1 steam able bag green beans, 1 apple, 6 almonds- hungry 1 1/2 hrs later so had 1/2 Graham carcaker
1 egg, 1/2 nectarine, 6 peanuts
Workout
4 oz plain Greek yogurt with cinnamon, 6 almonds
3oz 93% lean ground beef burger, 1 steam able bag broccoli, 1/2 c lentils, 1/2 cup salsa, 9 almonds - hungry 3 he's later
1 oz chicken, 1/2 c blueberries, 6 almonds - went to bed

I have been taking 3 fish oil pills a day also since the 28th (Friday). I feel great in the morning and then when I start eating by the end of the day I am bloated and my stomach measures an inch bigger. I did notice my breakfast meal was great yesterday as I felt great and not hungry but after I felt bloated and hungry. I have put my waist size in being bigger and it still calculates 11 blocks. I want to look (not be bloated) like when I first started the zone and not be hungry. Thanks for the help.

Stephanie, I quickly read your food diary. I think the bloating is coming from the veggies. Your digestive system is not ready for you to eat the large volume of veggies. I would recommend you go back to what you were doing when you first started, and then start making the changes more slowly.

I am not too concerned about the hunger at this point. Let's get the bloating under control first, then work on the hunger. We don't want to confuse one issue with another.

Hi Stephanie,

You might have misunderstood something. I did not suggest that you should add carbohydrate. I suggested to begin by recalculating your protein requirement. Now that you have recalculated and you know it is still 11 blocks, start the Zone diet anew, from the beginning point of the recommended equal number of blocks of P, C and F. Strictly follow Zone rules, which means most of your carbohydrate will be in the form of vegetables and some fruit. Do not exceed the guideline from unfavorable carbohydrate (unfavorable should not exceed more then 25 % of all carbohydrate in the meal). Do this 24/7 for at least 4-5 days and see how you're feeling. After 4 days of following the Zone Diet 24/7 your insulin will have lowered into the Zone range. Then apply the 4 hour hunger test (significant hunger at 4 hours with good mental focus = add 1 block of carbohydrate to meals; significant hunger with poor mental focus = drop 1 block carbohydrate from meals; keep snacks at equally balanced blocks of P, C and F). Bottom line, you need a solid baseline upon which to make the adjustments. It would be very helpful for you to keep a food diary even day for now, in case adjustments become necessary.

Your meals now contain too much fruit. Replace most of the fruit with favorable vegetables. For now limit fruit to a block or two daily. Berries are the best fruits for staying in the Zone. The bloating is most likely because you're retaining fluid due to too much stimulation of insulin from all the fruit you're eating. You might also want to gradually work up to eating entire bags off steamed broccoli and green beans, as they might also be adding to the bloating.

Putting a larger waist size in the calculator will not increase your block amount. It will actually translate as having less LBM and more stored body fat, which will lower your protein requirement result. The reason you will not see the block recommendation go lower is that the calculator is set not to recommend less then 11 blocks (Dr. Sears recommends no adult eat less than 11 blocks).

The good news, this can be adjusted to work for you needs. Hang in there. :)

While I agree with Sue's advice, it should be noted that sometimes people have a lot of difficulty with bloating when they jump in full force with low density veggies. I would recommend easing into it by adding veggies more slowly. Maybe even consider using something like Bean-o to help with digestion.

True for some people going from eating little to no vegetables to eating huge portions, which is why I mentioned slowly increasing to a whole bag at once, but Stephanie, you are actually not eating enough vegetables in your day. As you increase your vegetable amounts for better adherence to Zone diet principles, instead of an entire bag of broccoli, try including more of a variety of favorable vegetables the have a smaller quantity to a block, things like tomatoes, peppers, tomato sauce, onions, fennel, and salsa. Also keep legumes to a minimum, no more than 1 block a day, and maybe not every day.

Stephanie,

The Zone is best achieved by eating mainly low density veggies. It is my opinion that your bloating is coming from the sudden increase in veggies, as you seemed to be in the Zone and feeling well, tolerating the less favorable foods. It seemed as though things were going well until you made some "zone-favorable" changes.

I don't know if the bloating is coming from the fruit, as it was suggested in a previous post. I highly doubt that the bloating is coming from the foods that you were using previous to making the zone-favorable changes, since you stated that things were going well until this point. It is only my opinion, but I really think it is the veggies.

Now, you have a couple of challenges. One, you want to feel more comfortable. Two, you want to get your hunger under control. I don't believe that you will accomplish both of these at the same time, because the solution to one might lead to an increase of the other. So, I think that you could benefit most by going back to what you were doing in the beginning.

Your "successful" breakfast is a good example, but I think you could improve it by using the steel cut oatmeal. See how that works for you, same breakfast with the exception of the oatmeal.

Then, try to eat the rest of your meals as you were BEFORE you were noticing the bloating, except try incorporating 1/2 block of low-density veggie to each meal. Keep the rest of the carbs balanced for the Zone (keep all of your meals zone-balanced). If you can tolerate this without bloating for a few days (3-4 days), then try increasing the veggies to 1 block per meal. Again, try this for several days. If, at any point, you are feeling bloated and not tolerating it, then take a step back until you are comfortable again.

I think, once you get to feeling more comfortable, then you can work on the hunger issues. You took an important first step by going up to 11 blocks of protein, and it might actually be that you could use more protein if your activity level suggests it. Sometimes the calculator is a bit unrealistic, and so you have to go with what feels right for you.

Thanks again for the advice. I will keep a food log for the next four to five days and repost outcome.

Er, about the steel-cut oats. You may be tempted to eat it everyday, but, it will create an AA overspill or whatever it's called ... which basically increases inflammation. You only need a small amount at the most per week ... I don't know that much about it myself, I limit myself to two tablespoons a week personally LOL. But others may be able to explain in greater detail if you want ... or you might already know!! :-) :-)

Er, I think it's the GLA overspill I'm thinking about here? LOL

You can get too much GLA which reverses Zone progress ...

Sarah

Good point Sarah... You are correct it is GLA spillover or ("overspill" if you like). GLA = Gamma-linolenic acid.

I am researching.. How much steel oats would you need to eat to spillover...

LOL! overspill is probably the right word!

I do recall Dr. Sears saying "a bowl of oatmeal per week," but, it feels like, for me anyway, it's so easy to get the GLA spillover effect that I need to stick to very small amounts ...

I think the bowl applies to most people ... but highly carb-sensitive people? I wonder if we are more sensitive to the GLA spillover effect?

Sarah

I am not sure how to tell when enough is enough.
However, I eat (like nuts) raw, 1 serving (1-1/2 TBL), about twice per week.

Tolerance if GLA differs among individuals. While some people will be able to handle a 3 block bowl of steel cut oats daily, others won't even tolerate even a couple bowls a week. The signs of too many bad eicosanoids are the signs of spillover, symproma like constipation and letharargy. See the Eicosanoid Status Report for more info. Dr. Sears usually recommends a couple bowls a week. For the more carbohydrate sensitive person he's recommended no more than 1 block of steel cut oats at a time. Despite their GLA benefit, oats are on the the higher density side for a Zone favorable food. Spillover can creep up on you over time. You can be thriving in the Zone with the amount of GLA you're ingesting at first, and then a few months later be at a bad place with it without realizing things had been gradually going downhill. It's happened to me.

I suspect that grains, including oats, may be causing my increase in sinus and chest mucus since I started the Zone Diet so I'm experimenting with not eating oatmeal for a couple of weeks. Does Dr. Sears recommend anything else as a source of GLA?

Sue, I was reading the posts and saw you were talking about bad eicosanoids and signs of spillover, symptoms like constipation....
I got to thinking, I have always had a problem with constipation and doctors have just told me to take miralax up to 3 times daily. Was doing this and then I will stop if not having symptoms and then use again when I notice I am not going again. When I started the zone in april I had quit taking miralax and used fruit and veggies when I felt good and not bloated. Then I started adding more veggies and less fruit to feel full longer. I did have to start taking miralax again two days ago and don't feel so bloated as I did when I started my post at end of june. So I guess my question is maybe I have too many bad eicosanoids and its not the veggies making me bloated. Where can I find more info on eicosanoids?

Hi Stephanie, yes, I agree, which is precisely the reasoning behind my suggestion to begin over and closely follow Zone principles. Lowering your current fruit intake (replacing much of it with vegetables) will reduce the amount of insulin you produce. By avoiding omega 6 fat and lowering insulin. the better your eicosanoid balance will be and the less inflammation you'll have. As I wrote the other day, starting at the equal balance again, with less fruit and more vegetables, basically the classic Zone meal, will give you a solid baseline from which to adjust, if necessary. Zone books are the best place to find out more about eicosanoids. Dr. Sears' most recent book "Toxic Fat" gives the whole picture in a way that none of the earlier books have and it also explains how the Zone Diet can change the expression of your genes (turn off the bad genes and turn on the good ones).

Stephanie, I hope it all works out for you. It could be the eicosanoid balance, as well. One way to approach this (especially with advice coming from all angles) is to work on ONE thing at a time. It doesn't matter to me which thing you focus on first, as long as you are able to track the cause and effect from all that you have changed. Otherwise, you will not really know what worked and what didn't, and things basically get more confusing. Continue to keep a good food journal!

When I think of eicosanoid balance, I think of fat, and I think about improving my fat choices. So, using good lean sources of protein and avoiding fats that contain higher levels of omega-6 is a good first step.

Improving insulin control will come along with time. You are already improving your insulin control by choosing to follow the Zone Diet, and so by reducing your carb intake to be more moderate, avoiding the grains and starches, etc. is already a good start. You can improve your insulin levels even further by improving your carb choices, but since there was a question of how you were tolerating those veggies when you first started to increase them, I still feel that you should increase them more slowly, to tolerance.

Just out of curiosity (and you don't have to answer if this is too personal), do you have any issues with inflammatory bowel disease? I was just wondering because of what you said about your previous problems with constipation and what your doctors have recommended. This could also explain the problem with the huge amounts of vegetables.

Good luck!

Thanks Sue, I am keeping a food journal and will check that book as well. Cranberrycat, I agree already felt confused on what to do so going back to balanced meals and decreasing fruit just a bit and eating more different types of veggies instead of just one or two large quantities. Also trying to keep fruit to berries mostly. Not sure about inflammatory bowel disease. Originally when bloated and other symptoms they thought I had ovarian cancer. They ruled that out and then the next to doctors said I was just backed up and to deal with constipation and bloating to take miralax. Even if it meant taking everyday and nothing to worry about unless symptoms get more severe. I am now interested in this and will have to discuss this with my doctor. Thanks again for everyones help.

You're welcome! Wow, I bet you are relieved that you don't have ovarian cancer!

I mentioned inflammatory bowel disease because I have a good friend who suffers from it, she often has problems with constipation, and has a hard time with the tolerance of veggies.

Keep us updated...