I'm new to the Zone (day 2). My question goes out to anyone utilizing the Zone and is a competition or recreational bodybuilder.

I'm 5'10", weight 205 lbs and have about 10% bodyfat. I've been my own version of the Zone which is more like 40/40/20 and have ALWAYS eaten sweet potatoes, brown rice and oatmeal as my core carbs. My goal is to maintain 10% BF or less and continue to put on lean mass. I've achieved a weight of 205 with a lot of hard weight training and stict eating, but find myself bloated and not always digesting my food as well as I'd like. From reading Sears' book, I'm realizing sweet potatoes and brown rice are not as favorable as I have always believed and a better ratio of macronutrients should be better for overall health and digestion.

Since creating my Zone meal plan, I've replaced sweet potatoes and brown rice with black beans or kidney beans and have increased my green vegetables (all from the favorable carb list). I've also increased my fat intake and my overall meal plan is in the 40/30/30.

Based on my body composition I need about 39 blocks/day. It's very difficult to get 39 blocks of carbs strictly from green veggies and I'd like to utilize other carb sources other than kidney and black beans (if possible). I do eat traditional oatmeal as my other carb source but strictly as my 7 am breakfast meal.

Question - based on 39 blocks/day what do other BODYBUILDERS in the Zone use for carb sources.

Thanks!

-RPK

Hi Richard,
First of all, 39 blocks a day?????!?!?!? Is this overall or just Carbs? I'm slightly smaller than you and weigh in at 155lb but I'm eating 20 blocks a day after increasing my recommended daily block intake from 16, but 39 seems way out of proportion!
In any case, to the point in question, don't forget all the fruits out there: Pineapple, apples, peaches, etc. You can also use them. It makes for a strange meal, but doable.
A little bit of advice: Don't forget to increase your fat intake 2X or even 3X to maintain energy levels, and increase your block number to increase muscle mass. The Zone, while great for leading a healthy life and helping you burn fat, is a muscle maintenance diet, therefore it provides just enough protein to maintain your size. Up the block numbers to have more protein which is what you will need, taking into account whether you supplement or not, of course.
As you're starting you will take about a week or two to be fully in the zone. You might feel a bit tired at first but that is just your body adjusting. Once you've been in it a few weeks / months you'll notice the benefits the minute you eat outside the zone.

Good luck!


Diego

Thanks Diego. Yes, 39 blocks of EACH macronutrient. Do the math - I weight 205 and 10% BF so I'm roughly 185 lean body mass. I'm doing 1.5 grams protein per pound of lean body mass for GROWTH so that also means 39 blocks of carbs and fat (unless I'm reading something wrong).

Lots of food but I'm not here to maintain.

I will incorporate more fruits and veggies. I'm still @ 1.5 grams fat per block, but plan to increase that to 2 or 3x once I get the rest of the eating regimen under control.

Thanks again.

-RPK

Hi Richard,

That's too much protein in terms of the Zone. For the Zone you don't go over 1g of protein per lb of LBM; for your stats, a max. of around 27 blocks daily. That said, I'm not sure what the specific Zone recommendations would be for a serious body builder.

Good luck!

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Richard on 09/17/2009 9:13 AM

Thanks Diego. Yes, 39 blocks of EACH macronutrient. Do the math - I weight 205 and 10% BF so I'm roughly 185 lean body mass. I'm doing 1.5 grams protein per pound of lean body mass for GROWTH so that also means 39 blocks of carbs and fat (unless I'm reading something wrong).

Lots of food but I'm not here to maintain.

I will incorporate more fruits and veggies. I'm still @ 1.5 grams fat per block, but plan to increase that to 2 or 3x once I get the rest of the eating regimen under control.

Thanks again.

-RPK</div>

Ahh, so you've already done extra math, hehe
Yea, I've heard some BBers doing the 1.5 grams protein per lb of lean body mass, but I'm not too sure on the 2 or 3X. Still, your goal is to grow grow grow so it will be a matter of trial and error, as the Zone can be at times. I do CrossFit myself so I don't need as much Protein as you, but I do need a little extra which is why I up the block number some and I've noticed some growth in the past few weeks, both in size and strength, so I seem to be doing something right <img src='desktopmodules/ntforums/images/emoticons/smile.gif' height='20' width='20' border='0' title='Smile' align='absmiddle'>

Good luck!


Diego

Richard,

Although I am no expert in this area of body building, I guess that the ultimate proof is in the stats at the end. If you are consuming 36 blocks per day, and you are gaining LBM without gaining any additional bodyfat and are still in the Zone, then it must be working for you!

This will be a true test to see if it's possible! All the bodybuilders I know, both recreational, professional, pro-steroid and natural all believe you cannot grow without complex carbs in your diet such as sweet potatoes, brown rice, etc.

I'd LOVE to see some real proof from someone who lives by the Zone. Are there any "Zoners" out there that are STRICTLY bodybuilders???

I've seen plenty of examples of athletes, triathletes, crossfit, road cyclists, etc but NO strict bodybuilders.

Please reach out to me if you fit this criteria! I'd love some positive proof on this topic!

Thanks!

-RPK

Well, you can count me out, LOL!

A few months ago we had "Matt" posting, and I think he would be helpful to you. Maybe you can look around for some of his posts.

We had several "Matt"s posting at the same time, and I liked to call him PL Matt, the PL standing for "power lift".

If I recall, he was also of the belief that one would have to inflate the amount of protein per pound of LBM in order to get adequate muscle growth.

If you want to look around for Matthew's posts, you can do a search by entering "Enkidu" in the "posted by" field. Most of his posts were in the Athletic topic heading. I was thinking he used "Matt", but it shows up as "Matthew".

Not sure how Zone they were but here are to Body Figure competitiors you might research. Female Chastity Slone competed at the Arnold Classic then qualified for the CrossFit games this year.

Josh Bunch, I believe coaches Chastity and used a hybrid CrossFit program to finally win an event.

We can't direct link so you will have to copy and past to look at these.

http://journal.crossfit.com/2008/10...d-wins.tpl that is the article on Josh. You have to have a subscription to get the whole article.


http://journal.crossfit.com/search....odybuilder This is the results on the CrossFit journal for bodybuilder in the search field.

Let us know how it works for you. 1.5g of P per # of LBM sounds insane to me. You bodybuilders are a unique breed. A really good friend of mine competed back in the day. I remember him eating plain boiled chicken breast and broccoli for weeks on end. Hell I served as Marine and I know we a unique type ourselves.

I admire the dedication you guys have.

Good Luck, I would love to hear someone being able to modify the Zone to work for BB.

Here is a link to Josh's Gym.

http://www.gopractice.biz/ Looks like his lady's are doing well in the Great Lakes area using his programming.

Hey, Matt!

I think that was one of PL Matt's points about body building, because I remember that he was taking in more protein per # of lbm than what was recommended in the Zone. In addition, he also had some good arguments about his carb and fat needs for energy.

I believe he talked about 2 kinds of athletes, strength and endurance. Bodybuilding would obviously be a strength athlete, whereas most of the athletes featured in the Zone are endurance athletes.

OH DON"T get me going. This could get long. I will try not to though.
PL Matt's arguements were very self serving to what he wanted. They were intelligent and had a lot of data to back them up. As Dr. Sears said at the seminar recently getting people to change their believes in nutrition is harder than getting them to change religion.

There are many Strong athletes who eat Zone. What is strong? Is dead lifting 500-600#s at a body weight of 200#s strong? At what point does it go from useful strength and then turn to excessive.

What is elite? An Elite power lifter can barely walk across the gym without getting winded. An elite endurance athlete can barely lift their own luggage.

Bodybuilders are slightly different in that they build their muscles up with lots of strength work and eat all kinds of food. Then they go in to the cutting phase and will do cardio work to cut every ounce of fat. If timed right at show time they have no water or fat in their body. Doesn't sound very healthy to me but to each their own.

All of this stuff is great and I appreciate all sides. I don't think any of these methods are beneficial to the majority of athletes or people out there. Life doesn't seperate anerobic and anabolic events so why are our gyms set up that way. Why would a fire fighter train this way? Can he seperate the two when on duty? He may have to climb 20 flights of stairs with full gear. Get to the scene lift a large object off of a victim then carry a victim to safety. This is a real life possibility for a first responder not for the rest of us. For most of us it could be we are 2 blocks down the street with our 7 year old at the park. All of a sudden the child cuts them selves very deeply. Your cell phone is on the charger at home. What do you do? Can you carry that child and run? Hopefully no one ever has to go through something like this. If it happens to me I would rather be able to carry the child with me after performing some quick first aid.

Thoughts like this are why I use CrossFit as my only fitness methodology.

Now back to the Zone. I beleive the Zone can be used and adjusted for optimized performance for all athletes. It will take some adjusting and experiment for every individual. It will also benefit them long term unlike many of the protocols they currently follow.

I haven't read all of PL Matt's posts. Did he ever try the Zone or did he just ask questions and not get the answers he wanted and leave? He seemed very well informed and pretty scientific. Most guys I know that are into the research are willing to experiment also.

Dr. Sears talked about strength athletes using the Zone, pro football players and others were mentioned at the seminar. I didn't write down any of the names mentioned I am sure they are documented somewhere.

OK that was too long and all over the place. I don't have time to go back a proof this. Richard I'm sorry for hijacking this thread to start ranting.

Glad you are here and giving the Zone a shot. If you have the time and you are commited, I am sure you will find your Zone.

Good luck,

Oh, sorry, I guess I hit a sore spot there.

No offense to you, I admire you for what you have done with cross-fit and the Zone.

I was hoping that Richard could go back and search the forums for some of PL Matt's posts, because I think it would be a good fit for him. I don't pretend to know much of anything regarding this level of training, and won't be adding more to the discussion.

BTW, if my child was hemorrhaging as in your example, I think there is something else that takes over in that situation. Adrenaline, fight/flight. There are documented cases of people being able to do all sorts of things that they may not normally be capable of doing under "normal" circumstances. However, having a trained/fit body would definitely help!

CC sorry, that wasn't meant to be directed at you.

You are correct about the flight or fight and that may not have been a great example but you probably get the idea of nature not differentiating between anabolic (strength) & anerobic (cardio). In life we don't know what the events of the next day will be. In sport we do to some degree, so you can train for scenarios.

Since Richard is here and asking questions I hope he will give it a go. I hope he can get through my ranting and see there are some things to try.