After several years of eating "sort of" the zone diet, I've decided to get more serious about it again, but I'm having difficulty not getting hungry after 2.5 hours or so. It's focused hunger. I'm allergic to eggs, yeast, soy, and dairy (although I can eat small amounts of yogurt or cheese if I don't overdo it). Today for breakfast I had what I thought was a good 3-block zoned meal and I even eliminated fruit in case that was the problem: steel cut oatmeal (2 C), 1 cup Greek yogurt (3 P and 1 C), and 7.5 pecans for fat. I felt fine until about 2.5 hours later and then got hungry. I drank some water, but it didn't help. Do I need to reduce the carbs? Add more fat? Or what? Yesterday I got so hungry between my afternoon and bedtime snack that I ended up eating an additional 1-block snack and discovered that I'd gained weight this morning! And also, I'm having difficulty consuming 3 blocks of carbs without adding a lot of fruit. Last night for dinner I ate about 3 cups of spinach and a huge salad, which probably didn't total enough carbs, but I don't see how I could have possibly eaten more food! Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Andrea

Andrea,

Since you have focused hunger but early satiety, I would suggest that you could add some density to the meal, e.g. adding a block of legumes. If that doesn't work, then try increasing by 1 block (however, if you are already struggling with meal volume, this may just make it more difficult to get good quality carb blocks).

Make sure you are getting enough fat, too. Greek yogurt varies depending on the brand, if it is fat free, you will want to double your fat blocks.

Have you checked the bodyfat calculator? If not, you should do this, to be sure you are getting enough.

(I was going to look up pecans to see how many you need for a block of fat, but pecans are not on my food block list)

The Greek yogurt was zero fat. I forgot to put that in. I can't eat legumes. Another allergy! I did check the body fat calculator, and I need 11 blocks. I want to lose about 15 pounds. I checked pecans--1.5 pecans equals 3 grams of fat. (I may have had too much fat in that meal.) There's no way I can increase a carb block. I was actually wondering if I should reduce it.

Hi Andrea,

The Zone works, so all that's needed is to figure out how to make it work for your needs. Your hunger may even resolve with a little more time in the Zone. Here are some tips.

First go to this calculator to determine you current protein requirement: http://www.zonediet.com/Tools/Calcu...fault.aspx

It's fine to include some fruit. Berries are the most Zone favorable fruits. Mix and match favorable carbohydrates to achieve a meal with less volume, making use of lower block volume favorable carbohydrates such as salsa, tomato sauce, blueberries, blackberries etc.

The typical adjustment for focused hunger is to add 1 more carbohydrate block to each meal.

Stick with the most Zone favorable fats, such as olive oil, almonds, and avocados. For more check out the food block lists here: http://www.zonediet.com/Tools/Quick...fault.aspx

If you choose fat free yogurt (or any other fat free protein sources) you'd add some additional fat blocks to it, besides the usual ones you'd add to the meal. Zone protein sources are assumed to contain fat; that fat plus dash of monounsaturated fat (or the fat blocks, when using the block system) that you add to the meal provides the rest of the full amount of fat needed for Zone balance. No worries about having had a little extra fat your breakfast. It will enhance your ability to stay in the Zone, and it will not be enough to prevent the loss of excess stored body fat.

Using a food diary will be a great help for tweaking meals to make them work for you. If you'd like to post what you've eaten for the past few days, I'll be happy to take a look.

Good luck!

_________________________________


sue

Lost 100 lbs 15 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil. ZoneFast 1-2-3 is the best!

Consultant of Zone Labs

Certified Zone Affiliate

View my Zone Fast 1-2-3 meal photos here: http://s531.photobucket.com/albums/...3%20Meals/

View my classic Zone meal photos here: http://s531.photobucket.com/albums/...4/?start=0

Thanks Sue, but I did use the calculator: 11 blocks, and I do have a copy of the food block table. I am eating fruit, including berries, but I didn't have any in the particular meals I mentioned. I thought that fruit may have been causing the problem, but that wasn't the case apparently. I've been on this diet before, so I understand about the blocks, and I slathered 1/2 cup of tomato sauce on lean ground beef for two lunches to use up a carb block without needing to add more vegetables. I'm still having difficulty getting enough carbs for 3 blocks in some meals without adding A LOT of fruit. I don't have unfocused hunger. I have focused hunger. I realize that pecans aren't on the list, but I asked Anne-Marie Blacker about them a few years ago and she said they were an excellent source of fats and in fact had more monounsaturated fat than almonds per ounce.I do realize that if there's no fat in the yogurt, I need to add additional fat. So I'm not sure where that leaves me. It's not just hunger. I could probably deal with that, but my neck aches, which in my very allergic world usually means that I'm either hungry or have eaten something I'm allergic to. I've been very careful about the allergens, so I think it's associated with the hunger. When I eat, the ache goes away. Any more suggestions?

Andrea

More ideas...

Take a minimum of 5g Omega Rx daily together with Sea Health Plus. 5 g is equal to 8 capsules or 2 teaspoons liquid. If you decide to split the dose and take it more than once daily, then take a dose of Sea Health Plus with each dose of Omega Rx (no need to split it, but some people prefer to). You could also try taking you entire 5 g dose with Sea Health Plus with the meal you get the most hungry after. This amount of Omega Rx can prevent hunger and cravings after a meal (it's explained in "Toxic Fat").

Try taking a deep breath, clearing your mind and reading "Toxic Fat". Sometimes starting over again fresh from the beginning can be a big help.

Be sure to get plenty of sleep.

If you don't exercise, try to at least take a 30 min walk most days.

My resources show almonds contain a higher % of monounsaturated fat than pecans and that pecans contain a higher% of polyunsaturated fat than almonds. I'd advise to stick with Dr. Sears' recommendations when it comes to which foods are best fats for the Zone. The type of fat you eat is very important re lowering inflammation levels.

You could check out my classic Zone meal link, in my signature below, to view balanced Zone favorable meals that are of normal size and volume.

If you feel you're needing to add "A LOT of fruit" then try using blueberries. Three blocks is only 1.5 cups. The rest of the time try to use a block or a half block of fruit to fill in here and there if you choose veggies like broccoli with a larger volume of food to a block. If it begins to end up that more of the carbohydrate in you day comes from fruit then from vegetables, it may be difficult for you to lower insulin into the Zone.

Here are some lower volume per block carbohydrate suggestions taken from "The Top 100 Zone Foods" (I'll try to leave out foods you're allergic to): apples, apricots, asparagus, barley, black berries, blueberries, Brussels sprouts, cooked collard greens, cherries, chili peppers, eggplant, fennel (3/4 cup raw), grapefruit, grapes, green beans, kale (2 cups cooked) kiwi, kohlrabi (1 cup cooked), leeks (1 cup cooked), lemons, mushrooms (2 cups cooked), nectarines, steel cut oats (best to limited to a block at a time), okra (1 cup cooked), onions, oranges, peaches, peaches, pears, plums, raspberries, red bell pepper, salsa, strawberries, Swiss chard (2 1/2 cups cooked), tangerines, tomatoes, wine, yellow squash and zucchini.


__________________________________


sue

Lost 100 lbs 15 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil. ZoneFast 1-2-3 is the best!

Consultant of Zone Labs

Certified Zone Affiliate

View my Zone Fast 1-2-3 meal photos here: http://s531.photobucket.com/albums/...3%20Meals/

View my classic Zone meal photos here: http://s531.photobucket.com/albums/...4/?start=0

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Sue K on 09/09/2010 1:33 PM
The typical adjustment for unfocused hunger is to add 1 more carbohydrate block to each meal.
</div>

I believe that Sue meant that the typical adjustment for FOCUSED hunger is to add 1 more carbohydrate block to each meal.

Andrea,

Well, since legumes are not going to work for you, then try some other things like adding some barley or steel cut oats to your meals. It sounds a bit strange, but think of it like a "pilaf". I actually enjoy adding some cooked oat groats to some of my salads, just to add some density to the meal. You would prepare meals as you do, and then just eat one extra block of the barley or oats.

Because of your hunger being "focused", that leads me to believe that you are NOT carb sensitive. However, speaking for myself, I don't have the "typical" carb sensitive reaction to meals, I usually don't get "unfocused" hunger. However, I have experienced "early hunger" and I have difficulty getting through my work because my mind is constantly on getting some food. I had tried increasing carbs, but that didn't work, so I tried decreasing carbs, and that seemed to be more helpful.

I tend to have some symptoms that are suggestive of carb tolerance, and yet I have some other symptoms of carb sensitivity.

So, the point of all of that is this: if increasing the carb block doesn't work, then try decreasing it. It might work for you, if you are like me and don't have the "typical" symptoms.

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Cranberrycat on 09/09/2010 8:33 PM

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Sue K on 09/09/2010 1:33 PM
The typical adjustment for unfocused hunger is to add 1 more carbohydrate block to each meal.
</div>

I believe that Sue meant that the typical adjustment for FOCUSED hunger is to add 1 more carbohydrate block to each meal.

</div>


Yes, thanks. I've edited the typo.

You're welcome.

Cheers!

I don't want to start a war here, but to be honest, the reason I didn't respond sooner is that I was a little offended by the tone of Sue's post. Sue, I recognize that you have a lot of expertise in this area, but I'm an educated person with a lot of knowledge about health and nutrition. I didn't ask for zone diet help so that I could be told to get enough sleep. (I do. I've had chronic fatigue syndrome for 25 years, so I have to.) Or to exercise, which I also do. It would be better to assume that people know these things, or at least to ask first. To tell me to take a breath and clear my mind was especially troublesome. It's hard to take a breath when it feels as if your neck is in a vice--and when you know that this symptom is directly related to your change in diet. And although I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Sears, I also respect the expertise of other people. I don't know what resources you use, but I checked again, and pecans have 11.4 grams of monounsaturated fat per ounce compared to almonds, which have 9.4 grams per ounce. Here's my resource: http://nutritiondata.self.com/ Here's another resource, but the figures are rounded off. If you scroll down, you'll see a chart about nuts: http://lancaster.unl.edu/food/ftmar04.htm/ Obviously both kinds of nuts are good sources of fat so the point didn't seem important to me unless we can only eat the foods that Dr. Sears put on his list. But I don't feel compelled to only eat those foods as long as they're appropriate and I've checked them out. Nor I think would he expect us to. (Anyway, in case I was way off base I substituted almonds last night and today, and it didn't make any difference.)

I do need to find a way to add carbs with less volume, and I just bought some hummus and barley to help with that. I can't eat blueberries because they tend to attract mold, which, you guessed it, I'm also allergic to! I don't remember how to cook barley. I think I used to use 3 parts water to one part grain. Is that right? Also, I don't know if the Dr. Sears listing is for pearl or hulled barley. It says that 1/2 tbs. dry is one carb block. I just looked barley up, and there's a slight difference between hulled and pearled barley, but it's not that big a difference. I bought hulled because it's less processed, and according to the second resource I listed above, 1 cup dry is 103 grams of carb (after subtracting fiber), so 1/2 tbs. would only be 3.2 carbs, or about one-third of a block. Pearled barley is 124 grams of carb per cup, or about 3.9 grams in 1/2 tbs., or almost half a carb block. If I've miscalculated, would someone please let me know how? I'd like to use this as a source of carbs.

Cranberrycat, I appreciate your comments about carb sensitivity because although my hunger is focused, I've always believed I was sensitive to carbs, and last night in desperation I ate extra protein and the vice on my neck released within minutes! Yay! I'm going to replace a carb block with protein and see if I still lose weight and if I feel better while doing it. How does that change work? If I'm supposed to eat 11 blocks throughout the day, is a 3-block meal then 4 protein blocks, 2 carb blocks, and 3 fat blocks? If so, what is a one-block snack? One block of protein and half a block of carbs, plus fat? That doesn't sound right because it's less food per snack. I want to make sure that the calories are still low enough. Thanks to both of you. I know that you're trying to help.

I have not read the whole thread, so I'm just jumping in with a suggestion. Black beans are a good high density favorable Carb 1/4 cup= 1 block of fav carbs. Not sure if it was recommended or tried or if you can eat beans. Just a thought. Other beans are good to. I just favor black beans.

Andrea, I am glad to help! I agree with you on some points that you make. The Food List is a guideline, but I don't believe that Sears intended for us to eat ONLY those foods on the list. And, I also believe that most all food has some nutritional value, and has some place in our diet. It is just a matter of moderation on some things.

I also use nutritiondata.com as a good food resource. Glad that you have that website, as well.

Can't help you on barley, I don't use it much, other than having added it to soups. I would agree with your thought on it, using the one that is least processed. I have cooked other grains like the steel cut oats and oat groats, which are both about the same, 3 parts water to 1 part oats. And, the nice thing about the barley is that if you use too much, you can always drain it off. I trust your math (I didn't check it out).

I know you mentioned that you can't eat legumes, so I am surprised that you are trying hummus--I am sure you know that hummus is made from chickpeas/garbanzo beans. Hope it works out.

So, if you are carb sensitive, you will actually still eat meals made from 3 blocks of protein, but you will end up dropping one carb block. So, it will be 3P-2C-3F. Sometimes when we are carb sensitive, it becomes necessary to increase the fat to 5-6 blocks. A snack would still be the same 1P-1C-1F (you don't have to worry so much about the snack because the overall glycemic impact of that snack is not great).

Hope that helps you out some!

Thanks, John. I can't tolerate a lot of foods, and that includes beans, unfortunately. Glad you can enjoy them!

I forgot to say that I do add oatmeal to a lot of foods. In fact, back in 2004 I posted a recipe in this forum for zoned fudge that I adapted to replace the milk powder, whey powder, and peanut butter with foods I'm not allergic to--and it has oatmeal in it. Here's a link to that thread: http://pgfo.com/forums/viewtopic.ph...oned+fudge

Yum, just peeked at the link! I have heard of zoned fudge before, but I have never tried it.

Sue, I'm cooking some barley now, 3 parts water to 1 part barley, and it soaked up the water really quickly, so maybe it's 4 parts water! I use a 4:1 ratio with McCann's steel cut oats. I've never tried oat groats. I remember liking the chewiness of barley and it was a tasty substitute for the brown rice that I miss. There's only so much oatmeal that I can manage in a week. I remember stirring protein powder into the oatmeal for breakfast (and sometimes lunch or dinner too . . .) my last time with this diet, but when I tried that this time I really didn't like the texture. Then I discovered that I could tolerate Greek yogurt and have been mixing that with my oatmeal and loving the taste.

You're right about the legumes, and I'm just experimenting with the hummus, hoping that if I only have a little bit it will be okay. Unfortunately, I always crave the foods I'm allergic to. We'll see.

Thanks for the advice about how to balance the blocks. I really didn't understand that at all. I did know that some people who drop a carb add more fat, and I'll keep that in mind. I do know that I tend to lose weight more easily if I'm sure to include fat, but I'm not sure yet how much fat I need.

If you're a chocolate lover, try the fudge! My adaptation is a little strange because of the oatmeal, but I still love it. I'll bet the original is even better. I double the recipe and freeze 24 of them at a time so that I always have some available for snacks. They defrost quickly.

Andrea, not sure but I think you were referring to my post, not Sue's post (but sometimes it is easy to mix us up, since we both tend to respond quite a bit).

If you like barley, then I think you would also like oat groats. It also kind of reminds me of rice. Sometimes it is hard to find, but perhaps you can find it in the bulk grains section of your grocery store. I have been buying it at Whole Foods.

Yes, will have to try the fudge!

Andrea,

Here’s some additional info found on drsears.com which might be helpful.

"Q: Dr. Sears,

I was recently diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome and Epstein Barr. I wanted some advice on if you feel this diet will help me and what supplements you suggest. I have extreme fatigue, nausea, bloating, muscle aches, and severe sugar and carb cravings. I have been seeing a doctor, but I think food is the key to cure. I am only 28 years old and would like to feel like my old self again. Do you have any recommendations?

A: We are currently doing a study using the Zone Diet and high-dose fish oil in the treatment of fibromyalgia, which is related to Epstein Barr. We should have the data within six months. You should begin using about 10 grams of EPA and DHA per day along with a strict Zone Diet. You should see benefits in 15-30 days."

http://www.drsears.com/tabId/399/it...drome.aspx

_____________________________________________


sue

Lost 100 lbs 15 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil. ZoneFast 1-2-3 is the best!

Consultant of Zone Labs

Certified Zone Affiliate

View my Zone Fast 1-2-3 meal photos here: http://s531.photobucket.com/albums/...3%20Meals/

View my classic Zone meal photos here: http://s531.photobucket.com/albums/...4/?start=0

<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Cranberrycat on 09/10/2010 7:29 PM

Andrea, not sure but I think you were referring to my post, not Sue's post (but sometimes it is easy to mix us up, since we both tend to respond quite a bit).

If you like barley, then I think you would also like oat groats. It also kind of reminds me of rice. Sometimes it is hard to find, but perhaps you can find it in the bulk grains section of your grocery store. I have been buying it at Whole Foods.

Yes, will have to try the fudge!</div>

Yes, I was responding to you, Cranberrycat, and I tried to post it below yours, but it didn't turn out that way! And I did write Sue when I meant you. Sorry about that. I usually go to Whole Foods once a week, so I'll look for oat groats. I've heard of it for years but always assumed it wasn't much different from steel cut oatmeal.

Thank you for the link, Sue. That was in 2007, so I wonder what they found. I do have CFS, but in my case it's not related to Epstein Barr, which I was tested for. I do have fibromyalgia too, but I can keep it under control most of the time with exercise, including yoga. I've dealt with both for so long now that I know how to avoid flareups. Good diet, enough sleep, and avoiding stress are essential, and I do the best I can. I do take fish oils.

Andrea, sounds like you are on the right track with things. I attended a seminar a few years back in which a doctor was speaking on fibromyalgia. Suffering from it herself, she was almost wheelchair bound, and then she switched her diet to an anti-inflammatory diet and began taking high-dose fish oil. Now she functions normally and recommends this to all of her patients.

You are lucky, at least you are close enough to a WF store! I am far from one, so I have to make a special trip every few months. They cook up more like barley or rice, they have that grainy appearance.