Here's my situation and quesiton in one paragraph. In an effort to get control of my diet, I've switched to all favorable carbohydrates. In order to drop some excess bodyfat, I've left out a carbohydrate block on a meal or two daily. Now I'm very familiar with the dangers of excess insulin. What are the dangers of lowered levels of insulin (which I assume is the state I'm creating)?

I basically reiterate the same thoughts below, in greater detail.

I've been constructing my meals differently lately. I've been choosing only favorable vegetables as carbohydrates, and then often leaving out a carbohydrate block. That has lowered my insulin and greatly reduced my hunger. Since favorable vegetables such as brocolli, celery, tomatoes, mushrooms, sprouts, peppers, onions, garlic, cauliflower, lettuce, spinach, are generally high in fiber, they tend to leave me feeling full.

I've been on this sort of diet for the last five days, and my weight has gone from 137.6 to 134. My waist from 32 3/8" to 31 7/8". Naturally, I'm pleased with these developments.

Does anyone out there know if there are any dangers to deliberately dropping those carbohydrate blocks? Short term or long term drawbacks?

So far I'm only experiencing a feeling of satiety and improvements in my numbers (and the occasional light headed-ness, which clears up after the next perfectly balanced meal.)

I imagine that when I hit my weight loss goals, I'll stop with the dropped carbohydrate blocks.

This seems to be working for me now. Yet I'm asking the Zone community what they know about this technique, because I'd like to learn more about lowered insulin levels and their short and long term effects on body chemistry.

Hi Ivan -- I don't know the answer to your question regarding any dangers to lowered insulin, but Dr Sears suggests dropping a carbohydrate block if we experience unfocused hunger. So I suppose that there would not be any negative physical effects of this modification. Interestingly, I had been eating 1C less at meals, and found that I was hungry within a short time after eating, and it was increasing my cravings and likelihood of binges. I recently increased my carbs back to equal the P blocks, added a small amount of unfavorable carbs (but high in fiber, such as high-fiber wraps or cereal) and have found that's the only thing that keeps my satisfied between meals. I only mention this, because it is so interesting how we all respond differently as we find what combination and balance works best for us!

I'm so happy for you that you're on track -- I was right there with you, struggling with those binges!

Laurie

Ivan, it is not dangerous for a person eating equally balanced blocks to drop 1 carbohydrate block from their Zone meals. It would be wise for you would be wise to address the fact you are experiencing lightheadedness. It could point to several things, one of which is that you may not be eating enough daily (P, C and F). Another is dehydration, and another would be too much carbohydrate to protein (this one's unlikely since you have just dropped a block of carbohydrate at meals which made you feel better overall). Make sure to stay fully hydrated, to include enough monounsaturated fat in you snacks and meals and to base your carbohydrate adjustments on hunger and mental focus observations rather than your weight.

I think mixing the different types of carbohydrates is a great idea, Laurie. It's especially useful when you're having a salad. A whole bowl of lettuce, brocolli, tomatoes and onions usually doesn't add up to 4 blocks, so adding in some beans or brown rice helps. Whatever works to keep you solid until the next meal.

The lightheadedness probably resulted from the things you suggested, Sue. I certainly was eating less than prescribed, and I wasn't drinking enough. I'm making a point now of drinking more water. I've been lifting a lot of weights, so that's particularly important.

Speaking of weight, I appreciate your reminder to consider other factors over bodyweight. I have been accused of being too concerned with weight. You see, I like numbers. I trust them. Studies have been done that suggest that people who weigh themselves daily tend to gain less weight than those who don't. Overnight fluctuations are generally misleading, but looking at bodyweight, my waistline, and my bodyfat percentage, over the course of weeks or months, force me to be accountable.

It always felt good to me to pig out. I never minded scarfing down bowls of great food. If I had looked at a scale during those times, I would have scared myself into moderation.

I've watched people squander their potential in a variety of binges. Self-discipline is a great asset than requires daily renewal. Numbers help.

You know what else helps? Your advice.

To some degree, I agree with Ivan. I weigh myself almost daily. And No I do not depend nor base any decisions on the scale. Its more of an accountable thingy with me. Its fast and simple (though not accurate to what's going on) - and again, only my way (weigh - pun) of keeping myself accountable and my daily reminder as to what I have achieved, as I am in maintenance mode.

Thanks Ivan.

You could consider shifting your focus to other numbers such as number of glasses of water you drink, number of hours you go without hunger, numbers related to your athletic training, acheiving a low number on the fasting insulin test, etc. Have a good weekend!

Hi -- just to chime in here (as I'm dealing with a weight gain at the moment, so this topic is near and dear to my heart :-) ... )

Interestingly, I find weighing myself every morning also keeps me "grounded". As John said, as we're in maintenance, it's a reminder of what we've achieved. But also, when I know I've overeaten, I start feeling "fat" (sorry, it's not a nice word, but it's how I feel) and negative thinking sets in -- "oh well, I've blown it, I'll never be able to stay thin, etc.". Getting on the scale -- even if it's to face a gain of several pounds -- reminds me that I'm NOT back where I started.

Laurie

Guess what? I found an all-new way to knock myself out of the Zone.

You could almost predict what happened. I had been limiting myself to 16 blocks (I'm 134 with 14% bodyfat), regardless of how much physical exercise I was getting. On top of that, I was dropping an average of 3 carbohydrate blocks daily (1 every other meal or so.)

So I was overtraining and not eating enough. The other night I found myself wide awake after 4 hours sleep, quite unusual for me. A classic sign of overtraining.

I wound up eating 20 blocks yesterday and indulging in some treats (brownies, pie, etc) to get my energy back. Fortunately, it didn't spiral into an all-out binge. I stopped just at the point when I knew I was overdoing it (Hurray!), leaving a tempting supply in my refrigerator.

Even my numbers the following day were encouraging. Less than a pound gained.

Of course, there was a price. All that sugar affected my sleep. I managed to get 8 hours rest, but it came in between waves of sugar rushes.

So forget the numbers on this one. Overdoing it on sugary products led to physical discomfort.

I'm reading 'Toxic Fat' now, which is reminding me that spiking your insulin has many terrible, potentially fatal, drawbacks.

But, Sue, speaking of numbers, I recorded nine extra glasses of water yesterday. And John, you are certainly a numbers man. How can I tell? The anniversary ticker at the bottom of your post.

Now, going back to the issue at hand. I believe my protein prescription was too low. If I'm perfoming this much physical exercise, I'm going to up the number of blocks, especially if I'm dropping a carbohydrate block here and there. Otherwise I'm going to run down, have insomnia, delay my muscular recovery, etc. I'm upping my block prescription to 18. How does that sound?

And Laurie, stay on track. Don't let stress from work drive you into a binge. Remember the basics. Dr. Sears talks about the Zone having three major aspects. Diet is only one of them. Do you recall the other two? In 'Mastering the Zone' he labels the other parts of the trinity: exercise and meditation.

We talk alot about diet here, but let's be sure to include the other two equally important components. Meditation, whether it be by using a tape, writing in a journal, or by walking, is key to lowering your stress levels. And exercise, well, what could I say that hasn't been said. Use it or lose it, baby.

Judging from your profile picture, you know what you're doing, you look great. I'm only reminding you about this because you mentioned recent weight gain, and a work-related binge. You understand the Zone, and your well-constructed posts tell me that you are sharp, so I wondered if the recent rollercoaster ride may have less to do with diet, and perhaps more to do with the other angles of the Zone pyramid.

Personally, if I'm unhappy with something in my life, it doesn't matter how well I've put together my meals, I'm still risking a binge. Some of us turn to food for comfort. Sometimes we don't like things that are happening, and food helps us escape. I wanted to remind you (and probably myself) about the other release valves. Exercise and meditation.

And movies. Reading. Friends. Shopping. and the Zone Forum.

I also weigh myself a lot and it does keep me focused but on the other hand, if the scales says I am up a pound it will ruin my day. I know, it is ridiculous and I need to work on that!

Laurie, you do look great in your pictures. Also, being a woman, I find that our weight will fluctuate depending on the time of the month and how much stress I am facing regardless of what I ate or have been eating.

Ivan, I have been experimenting with adding more protein blocks to my meals. I have also been using a superfood or two into my day with the added protein and at times extra fat. I exercise a lot and my body doesn't seem to be getting stronger, it almost seems to be getting weaker and I am puzzled. My husband says I exercise too much but I have been exercising like this for a long time and it is only the last month or so that my body is feeling the fatigue. I really need to figure this out.

Just had to chime in here. Enjoy your Saturday!

Hi Ivan,

"I'm upping my block prescription to 18. How does that sound?"


Simply stated, 18 blocks is too much protein for you. At your weight, it would be an appropriate amount if you had around 7% body fat and were performing at the level of a professional athlete(this includes hours of athletic training daily, for instance 6 hours a day...). From the info you've been posting here, it appears you would not fit either criteria.

Be careful about eating more protein than your body really needs. Your body will have to work harder to break down the excess protein and it will be stored as body fat.

Your body is probably becoming very confused at this point (your many recent changes from day to day). My advice is to calculate your realistic protein requirement using the calculator on this site. Then stick with that protein amount for now. Eat appropriately balanced Zone meals, using the Hormonal Adjustment Diagnostic Chart to adjust for any hunger if needed. Give it a few weeks at that amount and see how it goes.

Shopping...it's certainly a great stress release for me (except for paying for it, lol...) I've been doing a lot of shopping the past couple of weeks. When the weather recently got very warm here, I found that all my summer clothes were way too big so I had to get some new ones! <img src='desktopmodules/ntforums/images/emoticons/biggrin.gif' height='20' width='20' border='0' title='Big Grin' align='absmiddle'>

Hi Ivan,

First of all, good job on curbing your indulgence before it turned into an all-out binge -- I KNOW how hard that is, and it's an accomplishment you should be very proud of!

Thanks for your post, and for pointing out the Diet-Exercise-Meditation trinity. I have to be honest with you -- I have not read Mastering the Zone, although I do have the book. You have motivated me to make the time to read it, because I'm certainly not working this program to its maximum potential without learning as much as I can from the source.

But even though I haven't read it, the concept of the Diet-Exercise-Meditation trinity really makes a lot of sense to me. It seems to be something I've gravitated to instinctively. In January I began regularly exercising -- alternating between strength/cardio sessions with a trainer at the gym and classes that combine yoga, Tai chi and Pilates. The classes also incorporate meditation, and I can't tell you what a great discovery that's been for me. In January, I also began a counseling program called "the Hungry Heart" (www. thehungryheart.org) -- it combines counseling for emotional eating with what is called "hypnosis", but is actually more like deep relaxation and meditation -- teaching techniques I can use at home. You're probably thinking it's ironic that I'm in counseling for emotional eating, yet I continue to struggle with it :-) -- but I have to say, I've noticed progress in that the incidents are more "controlled" than previously, and are not as frequent. Also, just being aware of the "why" behind my overeating is helping me prevent it, or at least curb it better than I have been in the past. I figure, these are behaviors that have been over 40 years in the making, so it's going to take more than a few months to "re-train" myself :-) .

So you're absolutely right about the Zone pyramid -- stress is a part of life, whether it be work or personal. I need to use the other angles of the pyramid (exercise and meditation) to manage it, rather than turning to food. Because honestly, overeating not only doesn't help matters at all (i.e., the stress is still there), but it COMPOUNDS it, because I now am dealing with BOTH the original stressor AND the fact that I'm feeling like crap from overeating! And there's nothing worse than having to work all night to meet a deadline, while feeling bloated and fatigued from a carb/sugar binge. If nothing else, the reminder of those experiences this week are powerful motivators NOT to get myself into that situation again.

And finally, thanks for your compliment on my posts -- I often feel they're rambling and not clear, since I'm usually writing late at night. Glad they're at least making some sense!

Laurie

Hi Kimberly,

Thanks so much for the compliment! You've made me feel better about myself today -- I've been struggling with negative "self-talk" since my weight is up outside my goal range. But as I read your compliment on my picture, I reminded myself that today I'm wearing the same shorts as in the picture, and they fit just fine -- so in the grand scheme of things, I'm really "ok". I'm not at the weight I like to be, but I know that will come if I consistently make the right choices and am patient :-) .

Thanks again!

Laurie

I think you're right, Sue. I'm going to stick with the basics. 16 blocks is my protein prescription. I'll stay within that.

I've also been following your advice about upping the water intake. It's made my skin look great!

I'm going to do what I suggested to Kimberly a few weeks back. I'm taking out the Zone rules (Bronze, Silver, Gold) and sticking to them. I think that will stop the curve balls I've been throwing at my body.

Hey Kimberly, are you getting enough sleep? It's especially important if you're active.

Laurie, I think it's cool that you're in the diet/health field. Hey, the best teachers are those who have had to learn themselves.

Let's all have a great week. Let's put ourselves first. Let's end the week feeling good about our choices.

Hi Laurie,

You are welcome! I know how much that extra pound/pounds affects me mentally and how it ruins my mood for the day. It is ridiculous that we do this to ourselves but we do. You do look great and I think that some of us don't see what others see when we look at ourselves in the mirror.

p.s is that a bichon in your arms??

No, Ivan I am not getting enough sleep. I have trouble sleeping just about every night. I do take melatonin and without it, I probably would not sleep.

Hi Ivan -- sorry I wasn't clear in my post -- I'm actually not the couselor, but the "counselee" :-) . I'm in the Technology field -- although I was a Psych major in college, and my thesis was on the treatment of eating disorders (surprise surprise :-P ).

Hi Kimberly -- she looks just like a Bichon, but Muffin's a "Shih-Poo" (Shih Tsu/Poodle mix). VERY fluffy at the moment, as I've been too busy to get her to the groomer!

Hope you're all doing well!

Laurie

I found the Body Fat Calculator at DrSears.com and plugged in my numbers. It turns out I have 13% bodyfat. It also revealed that I should only be consuming 13 blocks with an 'Active' activity factor.

I was overshooting the mark when I started eating twenty for a couple of days. I should clarify, though, that on those days I was getting close to two hours of intense weight training, plus a lot of walking. Perhaps for those isolated days, my appetite matched my body's needs.

On most days, though, 13 will do the trick.

I'm having one of those awesome Zone days, today, by the way. Dinner tonight was fantastic- cooked turkey with lowfat cheese on a large bed of cooked vegetables. I also did a shot of fish oil to start things off right. Somebody get me a witness!

Since this thread has started to slow down, I wanted to post my conclusion to the question of dropping a carbohydrate block.

I tried it for a while, and I think it's a mistake. It led to fatigue, hunger and cravings, which translated into binges.

I posted the following in the 'Accountability thread 4/12/10', and it sums up how I arrived at this answer.

"You know what I was looking at last night? The Hormonal Adjustment Diagnosis Chart located at DrSears.com. Of course we've all seen it, but I was surprised by one aspect we rarely talk about. It has to do with hunger.

According to the chart, if you have significant hunger with good mental focus less than four hours after a meal, then you had too much protein relative to carbohydrate in that meal, which drove DOWN your insulin. The chart advises us to maintain protein and INCREASE carbohydrate by one block.

So what I'm saying is that we're looking at our carbohydrate cravings the wrong way. If we're not drowsy, and we're sharp, but we're hungry, it's because we didn't get enough carbs.

Taking it a bit further, if you're craving carbs a few hours after a meal, it may be because you actually need more carbs.

I recently dropped a carb block from every meal, just to see how it felt. Predictably, it led to a binge. I had to eat 20 protein blocks (over the course of the day) to get full.

Look, we're already monitoring our carbs, their glycemic load, etc. Let's not start cutting them. Let's not start blaming our apples or green peppers for our sugar cravings. Remember that natural carbs (fruits and vegetables) are high in fiber. Fiber is stuff the body can't digest. So we're slowing down our digestion with all the greens. If you're not getting enough sugar in the blood, you're going to drop insulin too low, leading to hunger.

This was the basis of my question in the thread, "Any danger in dropping one carbohydrate block." Of course the answer is right there in the Zone literature.

For several years, my staple breakfast has been a glass of lowfat milk that I used to cook about a cup of rolled, slow-cooking oats with almonds, and a half-cup of cottage cheese with peanuts. I made exactly that for almost a thousand breakfasts (except when I traveled across Europe and Asia - good luck finding cottage cheese there.) That breakfast worked like magic. I could get through the morning hours like a machine. No hunger. Solid.

Then I started wondering about the carbs in the cottage cheese, or maybe the cup of oats was too high. I measured out the milk to be exactly a cup, I lowered the oats to 6 oz., and I replaced the cottage cheese with cooked tofu and a sprinkle of cheese.

How well do you think that worked?

My mental focus was great, but I was starving two and half hours later. Not enough carbohydrates.

The same is true for what I would occasionally do on weekends. I'd have a big vegetable omelette, often with egg whites and tofu, and then some cottage cheese and fruit. I'd be sharp as a tack and two hours later, as hungry as a wolf.

It took me years to get this idea. I always wondered about the adjustment chart. I never considered adding more carbohydrate. I'd hate for my forum friends to make the same mistake."