I am going to take 5g of EPA/DHA as recommended in the Toxic Fat Book. If I use a liquid, it equals 18g, that's half of my daily requirement. So my question is do i include the fish oil in my fat blocks or not? If so, perhaps it would be better if I took concentrated capsules. Thanks in advance.

Hi Kim,

You typically don't count the fish oil toward your daily fat intake.

A tip, that fish oil you have doesn't meet the criteria Dr Sears has set for fish oil if you have to take 18 grams of it to yield 5 grams of combined EPA and DHA. He recommends an ultra-refined fish oil with a 60% concentration of EPA and DHA. Yours appears to have a 28% concentration.

Thanks Sue, I looked on the IFOS website and Renew Life has some fish oils that have the same 5 star rating as Dr. Sears' fish oils, so I will take those instead of the liquid. No sense in ingesting all that useless oil.

Sue, can you suggest some brands that have a 60% concentration? I'm a little uncomfortable buying supplements from the same source as my nutrition advice, and I'd like to find an alternative to OmegaRX.

R,

I don't know which other brands currently meet the criteria set by Barry Sears. In addition to the 60 % concentration of EPA and DHA, it should have a 2/1 EPA/DHA and the batch number on the bottle should have attained the IFOS 5 star rating. The best place to find out which other brands meet this criteria would be on the IFOS web site (look at the 5 star report page).

Natural Factors Omega Rx 3 - available from iherb dot com for one source. And much less expensive and also in the recommended 2:1 ratio of EPAtoDHA.

I don't see that one on the IFOS site's 5 star result page.

I have sent an email to "Natural Factors" to find out whether or not they have independent testing for contaminants. They do claim "pharmaceutical grade" and that their product is not contaminated with pollutants.

IFOS is not the only independent testing agency, and so I think that if this company can certify their claims in another way, that would be comforting to me. IFOS is not the only game in town, and IFOS does have some affiliation with Zone Labs, so that is why IFOS has been recommended as THE source. But, it isn't necessarily so.

It's my understanding that NutraSource Diagnostics (IFOS) is considered to be the premier testing facility in North America.

Sue, if you read further down, one of the concerns stated in a post by "R" on 12/17 was a desire to NOT use a product that was affiliated with the Zone. Nutrasource does have an affiliation.

I didn't know that Nutrasource was the "premier" testing facility in the US, I wonder where that information comes from?

I have done my own "independent" research and have found that there are many products that are free from contamination, so I don't really believe that this is a major concern these days. Perhaps years ago it was, but clearly this is not as big of an issue as it once was.

Back in 2003 or 2004 (?) I, like you, wanted to know and wrote Natural Factors inquiring about the purity of their product. Albeit its been a few years and their testing was done internally. Note that Canada's requirements (HPB) are stricter than USA (USP).
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Here's the reply from Natural Factors:
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At Natural Factors we are committed to providing the highest quality products to our customers and enhancing their health. All of our products undergo rigorous testing at all levels of the production process in accordance with United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) guidelines. The Health Protection Branch (HPB) of Health Canada also regulates our testing procedures. Products must meet these high standards, and meet or exceed label claims before being released for sale.
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We forwarded your question regarding processing of the fish oil to our Quality Control Department, who investigated and advised us as follows.
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The oil is tested using the standards and methods outlined in the CRN (Council for Responsible Nutrition October 2002) Voluntary Monograph.
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PCB's (NMT {not more than} 0.09 ppm) Arsenic (NMT 0.1 ppm) Lead (NMT 0.1 ppm) Cadmium (NMT 0.1 ppm) Mercury (NMT 0.01 ppm)
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Our Product Manual contains the following information:
The ability to produce a highly concentrated form of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids that is free from lipid peroxides, heavy metals, environmental contaminants, and other harmful compounds. These "pharmaceutical grade" marine lipid concentrates are so superior to earlier fish oil products that they are literally revolutionizing nutritional medicine. RxOmega-3 Factors from Natural Factors is an example of this revolutionary new source of long-chain fatty acids. The key features of this product over regular fish oil products include: More than twice the level of EPA and DHA per capsule than any other brand. Each capsule provides 600 mg of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids (400 mg EPA/200 mg DHA)* and Quality Control steps to insure the product is free from lipid peroxides, heavy metals, environmental contaminants, and other harmful compounds. The Ratio of omega-3 fatty acids to arachidonic acid > 50:1 Contains the optimal amount of natural vitamin E as a preservative.
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* The 2:1 ratio of EPA and DHA in RxOmega-3 Factors has been the dominant ratio in most of the scientific studies conducted with pharmaceutical-grade fish oil products that reported clinical benefits.

thanks for the added info, John.

Will be interesting to compare the results between your inquiry and mine. I have also heard that Canada has more strict guidelines on testing, but the source of this info escapes me now.

Wow, that was a fast reply! That is cool, getting a response so soon, and on New Year's Eve!
Anyway, I am convinced that this product is quite safe, after what they responded with. Feel free to read below, this is the email response in its entirety:

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Thank you for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors marine oils; we appreciate you taking the time to contact us.



Natural Factors is committed to providing the highest quality products to our customers and enhancing their health. Before being released for sale, all of our products undergo rigorous testing as required by Good Manufacturing Practices regulations. We manufacture all of our products under the mandatory standards of Health Canada's Natural Health Products Directorate (NHPD). NHPD guidelines include IFOS testing which involves everything that we test for in our fish oils (heavy metals, dioxins and PCB's).The regulations found under the NHPD are comparable to the regulations of the United States FDA and Canada's Therapeutic Drugs Directorate (TPD), both who regulate pharmaceutical products. The only difference is that the NHPD governs supplements considered to be natural health products, which include products such as herbals and vitamin supplements.



Our Quality Assurance Department further explains: GMP's require that " The quality control department shall be a distinct organizational unit that functions and reports to management independently of any other functional units including the manufacturing, processing, packaging or sales unit". This means that the quality systems department is independent from manufacturing and sales. Our department's job is to test Natural Factors' products independently, which we do, and we maintain our records independently. These records are subject to being audited regularly to ensure that we are functioning under GMP compliance. We are GMP compliant. Natural Factors uses outside labs as part of our commitment to independent testing. For example, the fatty acid profile for our fish oils is tested externally to ensure that label claims are met.



As part of our commitment to ensuring the safety and quality of our products, Natural Factors has implemented a tighter control over the testing of our fish oils. Under the Health Products and Foods Branch of Health Canada, the Natural Health Products (NHP) regulations came into effect January 1, 2004. In order to comply with the Natural Health Products Directorates (NHPD) acceptance limits for chemical contaminants, we have been revising our test specifications to the following limits:



Contaminant NHPD Limit



Arsenic <0.14 mcg/kg b.w./day



Cadmium <0.09 mcg/kg b.w./day



Lead <0.29 mcg/kg b.w./day



Mercury <0.29 mcg/kg b.w./day



PCBs <0.09 mcg/kg b.w./day



Dioxins <2 pg/kg b.w./day



kg = kilograms

g = grams

mcg = microgram

pg = picogram

b.w. = body weight



Note that the limits are dependant on body weight. This means that for children’s products, we apply a lower tolerance level for heavy metals, PCBs and dioxins.



Molecular distillation is used to remove toxins from the liver oils of bottom feeding fish where there is more risk to the fish exposed to such things as mercury poisoning and other toxins that accumulate in the liver. Natural Factors Cod liver oil and Halibut liver oil are molecularly distilled as are the fish oils in the RxOmega-3 Factors products which are concentrated and refined using this process. After many steps of distillation, filtrations and deodorization, Natural Factors customers can be assured that this high-quality product is free of contaminants. In general, the crude fish oil is physically refined (degumming and neutralizing) then filtered and deodorized. After this process the oil is tested.



Molecular distillation is a process for purifying heat-sensitive liquids (e.g. fish oils) using a vacuum or low pressure still. Distillation is a method of separating chemical substances based on differences in their tendency to vaporize (volatility) in a boiling liquid mixture - the chemical impurities have a different volatility than the fish oil and can therefore be separated out. Under a vacuum or low pressure approaching a vacuum, the temperature at which a liquid boils is significantly lower than at regular atmospheric temperature. Therefore, at low pressure, fragile fish oil can be purified without destroying the active ingredients.



Dr. Michael Murray explains the term "pharmaceutical grade" and Natural Factors RxOmega-3 on his website at: www.doctormurray.com in a previous article. Please find his comments below:



"I have stressed the importance of using a pharmaceutical grade fish oil in previous newsletter. In order to represent itself as Pharmaceutical grade fish oil product must possess the following characteristics: It must be manufactured in a certified GMP facility approved for pharmaceutical products.



It must be manufactured according to pharmaceutical standards that include quality control steps to insure the product is virtually free from lipid peroxides, heavy metals, environmental contaminants, and other harmful compounds.



It must provide at least a 60% concentration of the most active long-chain omega-3 fatty acids (EPA and DHA).



The ratio of omega-3 fatty acids to arachidonic acid must be greater than 50:1



It must contain the optimal amount of natural vitamin E as a preservative.



The bottom line is that I recommend, RxOmega-3 Factors from Natural Factors. It is one of the few fish oil products that truly is a pharmaceutical grade product. Each capsule provides 400 mg of EPA and 200 mg of DHA - the exact ratio used in so many of the clinical studies." For general health, one capsule on a daily basis provides more than the level of omega-3 fatty acids shown to be protective against heart disease mortality in well-designed clinical studies including those published in the JAMA and New England Journal of Medicine the two most respected medical journals in the world. For more therapeutic purposes, the recommended dosage is two capsules two to three times daily.



The recommended label dosage: "1 softgel, 1 -3 times daily or as directed by a health practitioner. For therapeutic use only" means that at this dosage it is best to be under the direction of a qualified healthcare practitioner as many people take fish oils for cardiovascular health issues which require complete care.



Natural Factors Rx-Omega-3 Factors can be taken daily and continuously for optimal health benefits. Please visit our website www.naturalfactors.com for information about our full line of fish oil supplements.

To the zoners reading this thread,

The fact still remains that without specific batch testing results, we consumers have no way of knowing the details on the bottle of fish oil we purchase. The negative health consequences of taking high doses of lesser purified forms of fish oil (those with heavy metals, PCBs , etc. are too great to rely on anything less than independent testing from the IFOS, a fact the Zone Labs and a handful of other manufacturers who also provide this testing on each batch of their products recognize as crucial and are willing provide for every batch of their products.

Hmm, I look at it differently.

I think that the testing of these 2 products appears to be very similar. The big difference is that the Zone has chosen to have IFOS publish the results online, whereas Natural Factors keeps their results on file.

Personally, I don't bother to verify every batch that I receive on IFOS (I still buy Zone Labs), because if I had any doubt that the batch was not pure, then I would hope that the batch would not have been released in the first place. As I see it, this is an expensive and unnecessary step.

On the other hand, Natural Factors still follows the same standards (and perhaps even more strict, in some respects). The only difference is that the results will not be published on IFOS.

Lets just play devils advocate for a moment, and assume that NF is NOT following the same standards. Then, the auditors come in unannounced (as they usually do), and perform their audits and testing. If the proper practices are not being followed, then the company is shut down. My feeling on this is that they MUST continue to follow the strictest of guidelines, otherwise they will lose more than just a batch of fish oil. They will lose their business.

Hi Sue and Cran -- off-topic, but wanted to thank you for your points of view. I'm a firm believer in that we learn more from "disagreements" (for lack of a better word, since I mean none of the negative connotations of the word). To quote an Internet blogger who said it much more eloquently than I could:

"We can learn more from disagreement since dealing with disagreement itself is a process of learning. Through the listening and contemplating the opposite point of view, we gain further insights of an issue based on enriching the information, and we have more alternatives instead of having only one option to choose." (1)

So many many thanks to both of you (and all others that participate in the discussions!). IMHO, this type of discussion is what makes these forums most valuable.

Laurie

(1) http://www.urch.com/forums/gmat-awa...ement.html

Laurie, I totally agree. Maybe some look at the "disagreements" in a negative way, but I don't mean for it to be negative at all. I see that there are several points of view, and I think it forces other who are reading the posts and interested in the topic to do their own thinking and possibly do their own research.

I know that I tend to go back and read more about things when I post differing sides of the story, and so it is definitely helpful to me!

And to some, there is always the cost issue that must be considered. We were there for a looong time, and though in a better position, still do not have a lot of "extra" to spend - so always very mindful of costs for others.
I would not trade, nor do we regret our 14 years of home-schooling 4 children with only one income. Nor the necessary move from a lower cost of living in Charlotte, NC to the much higher cost of living in New England back in 2000. Our children and our lives have benefited more than any amount of additional earnings from two incomes.