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Shari 
Posts:42
Aspiring
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| 08/07/2008 6:59 PM |
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Presently, I do not take any and in fact, never have. I'm one of those folks who's genetically predisposed to having high cholesterol, and it seems that no matter what diet I follow, the LDL does not improve. I do have high HDL and low triglycerides, however, so that's a good thing.
My question is: How do I know how much to take? Is there something on this site that will advise me regarding optimal dose for me?
Thanks. |
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Cranberrycat
Posts:1885
Zoner
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| 08/07/2008 8:04 PM |
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Most people will start with the standard dose. If you are planning on taking the Zone product, then that would be 4 capsules or 1 tsp liquid.
You can call the Wellness support team for more specific guideance.
Also, a good reference for dosing is "The OmegaRx Zone". There is a lot of good information regarding how much to take for specific medical conditions.
Good job on your HDL and tryglycerides! BTW, in the OmegaRx Zone, Sears states that the lower your triglycerides are, your LDL particles are converted to a "fluffy" particle which is less likely to clog your arteries.
I am not a medical expert on this, by any means, but if you have a high LDL and low triglycerides, you may not have much to worry about. If you are controlling your insulin levels at the same time, then the LDL is expected to decrease, so that you have a lower LDL, and the LDL you have is the fluffy kind!
This is found on pp.88-89 in "The OmegaRx Zone". Hope that helps! |
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Cranberrycat
We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.
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Shari
Posts:42
Aspiring
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| 08/08/2008 7:03 AM |
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| Thanks, cranberry. That's good info. I'll be checking out that book later today. It's nice to know I'm "fluffy"! :P |
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Sue
Posts:3613
Zoner
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| 08/08/2008 7:50 AM |
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Hi Shari,
Also, for the most up to date info, follow the fish oil recommendations in "The Anti Inflammation Zone", Dr, Sears' most recent book. These can also be found his other site (DrSears.com). Here's a link to the document there which contains the dosing info you're asking about:
http://www.drsears.com/portals/6/Documents/Inflammation%20Medical%20Brochure.pdf |
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sue
lost 100 lbs 13 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!
for more photos, scroll over this photo and click when the link appears
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E.Wally 
Posts:271
Zoner
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| 08/08/2008 1:33 PM |
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Shari,
[you wrote ]
08/07/2008 6:59 PM Quote Reply Alert
Presently, I do not take any and in fact, never have. I'm one of those folks who's genetically predisposed to having high cholesterol, and it seems that no matter what diet I follow, the LDL does not improve. I do have high HDL and low triglycerides, however, so that's a good thing.
__________________________________________
*** Although the "desired" levels of the various components [ of a "blood lipid profile" ] are GENERALLY agreed on there has been and continues to be some disagreement as to the exact levels of some components and the "ideal" ratios between them.'
******** " ... ideal ratios between them'...."
If you continue to read the posted information below you will see the most current thinking on "lipid levels" and associated RATIOS.
There has been much research in this area in cardiac circles and basically what is being found is that the RELATIONSHIP of various levels of blood lipids is FAR MORE IMPORTANT AND REVEALING than the actual levels in and of themselves.
You mention high HDL and low triglycerides, and, yes, if you keep reading you WILL find out that is most favorable.
I believe the way the data is interpreted [ below ] is that the level - especially an ELEVATED level of LDL - is of little concern with a ratio of TG/HDL <1.
If your HDL is high and TG are low than this ratio should fall below "1" and the further below 1 the better.
WHAT ARE YOUR BLOOD LIPID LEVELS ?
PLEASE LIST THEM FOR ME AND I'LL RUN THE IMPORTANT RATIOS FOR YOU - it is not difficult to do yourself and once I show you - you can do it yourself.
_____________________________
In any event here's a partial explanation of the "TOTAL CHOLESTEROL TO HDL RATIO" which our own Dr.Sears considers very important :
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[quoted from The Soy Zone ]
***TG to HDL Ratio <1 ideal <2 Good, --Fail >4
*** This is the ratio that is considered a "marker" for "fasting insulin" level - a ratio of "1" means it should be exactly where you want it - about 5,",,,in a 'zone of wellness' -not too high and not too low" ...]
per the author - Dr.Sears.
[Mine was measured @ 5.4 and 4.4 with a TG/HDL ratio of 1.5 and 1.07 so you can see that indeed it is an excellent "indirect marker"]
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________________
I wanted to pass on to you an example of "current thinking" regarding Lipid Profile Tests and their interpretation.
The "standard" cholesterol test has been around for some time but HOW the data is interpreted has been constantly evolving.
**** In a nutshell - lately much thinking regarding this has come into agreement with none other than what our wonderful leader Dr.Sears has been saying for some time !
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[excerpt of abstract of study]
Regarding the lipid ratio, it is apparent from Framingham Study data that coronary heart disease (CHD) risk is strongly linked to the total/HDL cholesterol ratio—whether or not either the total or the LDL cholesterol level is high.1 A total/HDL cholesterol ratio of 2.5 is, taken alone, highly favorable.
William B. Kannel, MD, MPH
Professor of Medicine and Public Health
Boston University School of Medicine
Boston
[end of excerpt]
Further research is revealing that when the RATIO OF TOTAL CHOLESTEROL TO HDL CHOLESTEROL is tracked it has turned out to be a far more accurate predictor of future heart disease.
There are those in the field of cardiology who say this ratio is the single most important factor in a lipid profile and predictor of future cardiac health.
****** Something Dr.Sears professed a number of years ago.****
Here are additional and more comprehensive and more current research findings on this :
http://www.all-about-lowering-cholesterol.com/cholesterol-level-scale.html
• Cholesterol level scale – Cholesterol ratios.
Blood Cholesterol Ratios
_
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Total Cholesterol / HDL Protective: Less than 4.2; Warning:4.3 and higher
LDL / HDL :Protective: Less than 2.5; Warning:2.6 and higher
In Protein Power, by
Michael and Mary Eades,
they write that this ratio of HDL to LDL and total cholesterol, is actually more important then total cholesterol in predicting heart attack, heart disease, stroke, arteriosclerosis, coronary heart disease, coronary artery disease and other cardiovascular diseases.
These numbers help tell us whether more cholesterol is being stored in our cells or else is being broken down and removed from our body. That's why you can see heart attacks in people that have low total cholesterol levels. Their ratio HDL is low as well, and as a result their ratio is high.
To determine these ratios for yourself, simply divide your total cholesterol and LDL numbers by your HDL number.
The ratios of TOTAL CHOLESTEROL TO HDL should be below 4 as a general rule for both men and women.
HOWEVER: A VERY GOOD RATIO IS 3.5,
EXCELLENT IS 3.0
AND FANTASTIC IS 2.6.
If you can get your TOTAL CHOLESTEROL TO HDL ratio down between 2.4 and 2.8, you can actually experience a REVERSAL of heart disease.
[END OF QUOTE ]
"...this ratio of HDL to LDL and total cholesterol, is actually more important then total cholesterol in predicting heart attack, heart disease, stroke, arteriosclerosis, coronary heart disease, coronary artery disease and other cardiovascular diseases. ..."
*********************************************************
The list of above diseases ALL have something in common :
INFLAMMATION EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY LED TO THEIR OCCURANCE.
[ Mine is 2.66 - and I thank the Zone Eating Plan for that and often remember Barry Sears in my prayers.]
... from the "IDEAL" ZONE
E.Wally
ewally@verizon.net
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Shari
Posts:42
Aspiring
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| 08/08/2008 4:17 PM |
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Wow! You're all so responsive and helpful. Many thanks. My last lipid profile was done in 2/08. I am familiar with the ratios from reading Protein Power a few years ago. Here are the numbers:
Total: 251
HDL: 77
LDL: 145
Trigs: 144
I plan to have another lipid profile done after I've been on this program for about 30 days and since I'm due for a physical about then anyway.
Interestingly, in '04 when I gave up on the low-fat way of eating and followed more of a good-carb, sugar-free whole-foods eating program, my TG/HDL ratio went from 1.56 to 0.74 (my trigs at that time were 46). I'll be interested to hear your thoughts, E. Wally.
Have a great weekend! |
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E.Wally
Posts:271
Zoner
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| 08/09/2008 11:15 AM |
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&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Shari,
I had an appointment yesterday that ran into late last night so I wasn't able to respond until now.
I'm going to "do the ratios" of your lipid levels for you with brief comments first then "paste in " some background information regarding these "ratios".
I have several documents focusing on cholesterol in general and lipid ratios in particular that I would be happy to attach and send to you. If I posted all of them here I think it might offend some as it would take up considerable space.
My email address is : ewally@verizon.net [ also posted below ]
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*** Before we get started it would be helpful if you could post your typical blood pressure - again RECENT studies are finding that the COMBINATION of blood pressure and lipid levels and ratios are all interrelated more importantly than originally understood.
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As you know our basic cholesterol screening test has been around for some time with little change. Lately there has been some confusion generated among the general public about what the results of this test mean. There is a widespread impression that "it's all changed now" - what was once important is now not, etc.,etc.
The "confusion" is simply the result of ongoing research which has revealed that those "basic lipid levels" and more importantly - their RELATIONSHIPS TO ONE ANOTHER - are far more revealing than originally understood and that if you can sum it up [ a dangerous th ing to do where medical research is concerned ] recent advanced thinking is that the RATIOS, and in particular, SPECIFIC RATIOS, are far more important than the specific levels.
This is a significant "shift" in fundamental cholesterol analysis.
Ironically our very own Dr.Sears was one of the first to recognize this and can be considered a member of this "new frontier" in the interpretation of cholesterol levels.
Michael and Mary Eades, authors of Protein Power are also pioneers in this area. Of the many books I have read regarding diet it is one of my favorites and clearly superior.
*** In comparing your results with "current thinking" there will be a "mixture" of "current thinking" ! The first values that will be compared against are those of Michael and Mary Eades and William B. Kannel, MD, MPH
Professor of Medicine and Public Health, Boston University School of Medicine. There will be "additional" comparative values liste that come from several other studies and researchers. The complete sources of these values are contained in the documents I referred to earlier and will be happy to email to you.
Without further adeu :
YOUR "RATIOS" :
Total cholesterol/HDL : 3.26 This falls between "excellent" < 3.0 and "very good" < 3.5
***typical "average" ratio : 4.5, "Protective ratio" : < 4.2
as you can see "your" ratio couldn't be much better
LDL/HDL : 1.88 Falls well below "Protective" < 2.5 "Ideal" < 2.5, "Desired" < 3.5
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*** Refer you back to the quotes from Kannel and Eades above for the importance of these TWO RATIOS.
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HDL/LDL : *the "reverse" of the last one - don't confuse ! .53, Falls WELL above "Desired" > .3, and "Ideal" > .4
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*** TG/HDL RATIO ***
This is the ratio that Dr.Sears has emphasized as being a test "... that your doctor MUST administer ..." and is "..an indirect marker for insulin..."
PER DR. SEARS : "Ideal" < 1.0, "Good" < 2.0 YOUR RATIO : 1.87
I have had cholesterol tests evey 6 months for over 10 years and twice had a "fasting insulin" done as part of them. I have found indeed a close relationship between my Total C/HDL ratio and "fasting insulin" and as predicted by Dr.Sears.
[ This is just one example of how Dr.Sears and the science behind The Zone concept of nutrition and hormonal balance is "head and shoulders" above the overwhelming majority of other "diets", or whatever you call them.
Most of these other "diets" are the half baked concoctions of some quarter baked "nutritionist".
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HOW YOUR "LEVELS" COMPARE :
*** this is where their has been a clear divergence from the relative importance of "levels" to, currently, "ratios".
TOTAL CHOLESTEROL : You - 251, "Desired" < 200
Here is a shining example of EXACTLY what Kannel in above referenced study - was studying
[excerpt of abstract of study]
Regarding the lipid ratio, it is apparent from Framingham Study data that coronary heart disease (CHD) risk is strongly linked to the total/HDL cholesterol ratio—whether or not either the total or the LDL cholesterol level is high.1 A total/HDL cholesterol ratio of 2.5 is, taken alone, highly favorable. ... [ end of excerpt]
He was studying a "relationship" that had been observed for some time that had puzzled medical professsionals, that is, the inconsistency whereby people with what were considered to be highly elevated levels of TOTAL CHOLESTEROL - had little, if any, incidence of heart disease - and - vice versa.
YOUR TOTAL CHOLESTEROL is "above desired" but your "ratios" are excellent.
The complete abstract of the study this comes from can be found at :
http://www.consultantlive.com/display/article/10162/37244
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HDL : You - 77, "Desired" > 40, "Best" > 60
LDL : You - 145, "Desired" < 100
TG : You - 144, "Desired" 30 - 175, "Best" < 150
YOU are a perfect example of someone who by "traditional cholesterol analysis" of just a few years ago - and by some practitioners TODAY who are not "up on the latest research" would by at least a few of your "levels" be a concern.
However, when you consider your "levels" [ some of them ] against the background of current thinking regarding key ratios, and in particular that prescribed by Dr.Sears, a considerably different picture emerges - that is, that overall your ratios are quite excellent !
*** A serious note needs to go here : I consider myself well informed in this area, however, I AM NOT a health care professional and you should take this into your consideration.
This is why, among other reasons, I almost always reference my sources clearly. You, or anyone else, can evaluate for yourself the validity of the data and opinions of others provided here.
** I consider my last cardiologist and present one to both be among the best and would be happy to refer you to them. Of course I have no idea of where you are so this may not be much help if you are in California - for example !
However - one of the links below will take you to the web site of a Dr.Sinatra who is quite remarkable in a number of ways, among them, he has a number of email bulletins and subscriptions to bulletins regarding health, nutrition, and cardiac care [ he's a board certified cardiologist and certified nutritionalist - rare ] that are excellent.
His website alone contains a wealth of information.
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you wrote :
I plan to have another lipid profile done after I've been on this program for about 30 days and since I'm due for a physical about then anyway.
Interestingly, in '04 when I gave up on the low-fat way of eating and followed more of a good-carb, sugar-free whole-foods eating program, my TG/HDL ratio went from 1.56 to 0.74 (my trigs at that time were 46). I'll be interested to hear your thoughts
[ end of excerpt ]
Yes - it will be MOST interesting to see where you are by a current test !
I'm most intrigued by : in '04 when I gave up on the low-fat way of eating and followed more of a good-carb, sugar-free whole-foods eating program, my TG/HDL ratio went from 1.56 to 0.74
It seems your TG/HDL ratio has been "all over the place" while your LDL has remained constantly high ?
What was the "diet" if it was a "formulated" one that you ended up with that result of that ratio with ?
*** Also - from all that has gone before I think you realize it is dangerous to take that ONE RATIO out of context with all your other ratios and levels - and what THEY were doing at the same time.
Hope this helps ...
... from the "CARDIAC" ZONE
e.Wally
ewally@verizon.net
"CHOLESTEROL INFORMATION LINKS OF INTEREST :
http://www.md-phc.com/education/cholest.html#cholesterol
http://www.consultantlive.com/display/article/10162/37244
Dr.Sinatra.com http://www.drsinatra.com/c/landing_cholhc.asp
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Cranberrycat
Posts:1885
Zoner
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| 08/09/2008 11:24 AM |
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Nice analysis, E.Wally!
In addition, the cholesterol molecules that she does have are likely those "fluffy beach ball" molecules that Dr. Sears speaks of in the OmegaRx Zone. These molecules are NOT the ones that contribute to heart disease. |
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Cranberrycat
We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.
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Sue
Posts:3613
Zoner
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| 08/09/2008 2:42 PM |
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Hi Shari,
In case you're not aware of this, triglyceride and cholesterol levels do not show one's inflammation levels nor are they used to determine one's fish oil dose (your original question in this thread). |
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sue
lost 100 lbs 13 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!
for more photos, scroll over this photo and click when the link appears
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Shari
Posts:42
Aspiring
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| 08/09/2008 3:44 PM |
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Wow! I'm still trying to digest all of this great information, E.Wally. Many thanks. I haven't had time to peruse the articles yet, but I plan to in the very near future. Your comments are consistent with what I've been thinking all along.
To answer your questions:
My blood pressure is always very good. 3/25/08 reading: 110/70. 5/28/08 reading: 116/68.
The diet I was following quite strictly in '04 was the Suzanne Somers plan where you eat fruit alone, then wait 20 minutes before a carb meal and 1 hour before a protein meal. There's no limit to the amount of protein and fat you eat, and I was consuming quite a bit of heavy cream and cream cheese during the first few months of being on that plan. I tapered off with that after a while, however. Another big rule is that you don't combine protein and carbs while on level 1. On level 2 (maintenance), you can combine protein and carbs. At that point, it becomes a lot like SugarBusters or South Beach. Whole foods, whole grains, no sugar. So far it seems like combining the food groups as we do in the Zone works much better for me in terms of weight loss and hunger control and hopefully a lower LDL as time goes on; although, it appears that may not be all that important.
I think that answers your questions. Thanks again to all of you for all of the great info! I'm 48 years old (almost!), weigh about 140, have never had cardiac problems or seen a cardiologist. However, my internist encourages going on statins to lower my LDL, and I refuse to do that. I avoid prescriptions meds if at all possible. He knows where I stand on that issue and has never really pushed it.
Thanks again! |
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Sue
Posts:3613
Zoner
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| 08/09/2008 7:43 PM |
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| You're welcome Shari! |
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sue
lost 100 lbs 13 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!
for more photos, scroll over this photo and click when the link appears
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Cranberrycat
Posts:1885
Zoner
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| 08/10/2008 12:28 PM |
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Shari,
Sue said:
"In case you're not aware of this, triglyceride and cholesterol levels do not show one's inflammation levels nor are they used to determine one's fish oil dose (your original question in this thread)."
You can get a really good idea regarding your level of inflammation using the information that you have already posted. Also, you can easily start your fish oil dosing at the "standard dose" and then adjust your dosage according to the Eicosanoid Status Report", which is printed in the OmegaRX Zone. There may also be a copy on www.drsears.com. If you have trouble finding it, let me know.
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Cranberrycat
We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.
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Sue
Posts:3613
Zoner
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| 08/10/2008 1:03 PM |
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[quote]Posted By Cranberrycat on 08/10/2008 12:28 PM
You can get a really good idea regarding your level of inflammation using the information that you have already posted.
[/quote]
Cran, I'm puzzled by this statement. Could you be so kind as to expand on this in relation to the Zone and actual AA/EPA levels? I'm interested to know how Shari (or anyone for that matter) can get a "really good idea" of their inflammation levels from the info she's posted. I'd also appreciate if you could direct us to a Zone related source that further detail this information. I'd especially be interested to know of a source where Barry Sears explains how to determine that your AA/EPA level is in the ideal 1.5 to 3 range by looking at your cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure readings (this is the info Shari posted). I'm sure that many other forum members would probably also find this info to be of great help.
Thanks very much!
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sue
lost 100 lbs 13 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!
for more photos, scroll over this photo and click when the link appears
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Cranberrycat
Posts:1885
Zoner
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| 08/10/2008 10:24 PM |
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Sue,
Perhaps you don't recall, but we discussed this on a few other threads already.
The "zone-related source" that I DEPEND ON for fish oil recommendations is the OmegaRX Zone. This book was written SPECIFICALLY for this topic. Unlike the Anti-Inflammation Zone, which covers the Zone more broadly, the OmegaRx Zone is much more detailed on the subject.
Please refer to chapter 9 entitled "Your Blood Will Tell the Future". It is all in there.
Starting on page 95 is a really nice summary:
Step 1: establish a baseline measurement of TG/HDL and fasting insulin levels
Step 2: repeat these tests in a month
Step 3: (please note that this is step 3, and not step 1 or 2) AA/EPA test can be done for those who want laserlike pinpointing of eicosanoid levels.
Also, on the same page, is a chart to use, to determine your state of wellness based on one's blood levels. Please note that the AA/EPA is not the only test listed in this table. The TG/HDL and the fasting insulin are also used to determine one's state of wellness.
On page 97, he states that if you have trouble getting the AA/EPA test, you can use your TG/HDL ratio to determine if you need to take more fish oil (WHAT? seems to me that is suggesting that there are ALTERNATIVES to the AA/EPA).
Then, on page 98, you can also use the Eicosanoid Status Report. This set of questions, along with the information that you have gathered from the TG/HDL and fasting insulin, should be adequate to help one adjust fish oil...without breaking the bank!
Here is the link to the ESR found on www.drsears.com:
http://drsears.com/portals/6/Documents/Eicosanoid%20Status%20Report.doc
The AA/EPA test is very expensive. Taking fish oil is expensive enough, without adding to it the expense of doing this test. Of course, it is fine if you desire pinpoint accuracy, as Sears suggests. I certainly would not begrudge anyone who wants to do the test. Just basically suggesting that in most cases, one will not need to add this expensive test to their regime.
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Cranberrycat
We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.
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Cranberrycat
Posts:1885
Zoner
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| 08/10/2008 10:36 PM |
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Shari,
Just in case you are wondering, your blood levels would suggest that you are in pretty good shape.
You could start with the standard dose of fish oil, and then use the Eicosanoid Status report to fine-tune your adjustments, if needed. You could also request a repeat lipid panel, a month after starting. However, I don't know if you would get that paid by insurance, so you might be footing the bill on the second test.
If you want, you could do the AA/EPA test, but just note that it will cost you about $300 per test, and if you need to fine-tune, then that is another $300. Realistically, from the information posted in this thread, I believe that you can figure out where you are without the expense.
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Cranberrycat
We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.
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Sue
Posts:3613
Zoner
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| 08/11/2008 7:36 AM |
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Thanks. You've given general info about wellness, but my questions are specifically about your statement that one can discern one's inflammation level from the kind of info Shari has posted here. I'm also surprised that you seem to be disregarding the most up to date info that Barry's written on the subject of the AA/EPA (SIP) test in "The Anti Inflammation Zone", which was written several years after the book you refer to.
And my question for you still is as follows(pasted in from my post above) Could you be so kind as to expand on this in relation to the Zone and actual AA/EPA levels? I'm interested to know how Shari (or anyone for that matter) can get a "really good idea" of their inflammation levels from the info she's posted. I'd also appreciate if you could direct us to a Zone related source that further detail this information. I'd especially be interested to know of a source where Barry Sears explains how to determine that your AA/EPA level is in the ideal 1.5 to 3 range by looking at your cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure readings (this is the info Shari posted). I'm sure that many other forum members would probably also find this info to be of great help.
Thanks!
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sue
lost 100 lbs 13 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!
for more photos, scroll over this photo and click when the link appears
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Cranberrycat
Posts:1885
Zoner
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| 08/11/2008 9:47 AM |
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Sue,
Tell me more about what YOU think wellness is?
If you want more specific information regarding what I posted, perhaps you should read the book!
Cheers! |
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Cranberrycat
We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.
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E.Wally
Posts:271
Zoner
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| 08/11/2008 5:03 PM |
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Shari,
You are welcome - I am glad to have helped someone with very similar inconsistencies in blood lipid levels.
And I have even more good news for you :
In an attempt to focus on the "issue at hand" and not bring unnecessary data into view I DID NOT quote the abstract of the research by Kannel in full [ but I did leave the link which I will leave again to the COMPLETE article :
http://www.consultantlive.com/display/article/10162/37244
Here is part "of the part" I left out :
... blood lipids, ... fundamental to atherogenesis,... impact is profoundly influenced by the associated blood pressure. Atherosclerosis does not develop in the low-pressure venous circulation, despite exposure to lipid-laden blood. Only when used as a conduit for cardiac revascularization do veins become vulnerable.
******* [not author's emphasis ] Each 20/10 mm Hg increment in blood pressure ******* doubles the cardiovascular mortality rate. ******** Diabetes also doubles the risk associated with any given lipid value.
[END OF EXCERPT]
GUESS WHAT THE TITLE OF THE ARTICLE IS ?
Treatment Dilemma: Favorable Lipid Ratio With an Elevated LDL
Can you believe that ? [ time to follow the link - I think ! ]
There, for free of charge, you can get the opinion of one of the most respected researchers in this field - in the world.
[Google his name, c WILLIAM B. KANNEL, M.D., M.P.H., and follow a FEW of the many links that will appear and you will see what I mean ]
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MY BP is about identical with yours : "low normal" and sometimes runs even lower.
This had been a concern of mine for some time as EVERYTHING ELSE was responding quite nicely to my "rehabilitation program" following the heart incident and also to the Zone Eating Plan.
Although my cardiologist [ who has been featured on 20/20 and Nightline ] didn't quote Dr.Kannel one day when I expressed my dismay about the "low" BP he made it very clear that BP and heart disease rose almost identically - for a number of reasons and that I should be thrilled rather than disappointed my BP was where it was. At the time he said that just "small increases in BP" are very troubling and a concern.
*** Did you note the LOGARITHMEC INCREASE IN CARDIAC DISEASE AND ONLY SMALL INCREASES IN BP as mentioned above ? !!!!
Especially the "multiplying" factor of DIABETES !!!!
No wonder cardiologists freak when you are diabetic with high BP !!
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you wrote :
So far it seems like combining the food groups as we do in the Zone works much better for me in terms of weight loss and hunger control and hopefully a lower LDL as time goes on; although, it appears that may not be all that important.
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That wouldn't surprise me - no offense but The Zone Eating Plan came/comes from a whole different place than the "diets" mentioned. That is - it came from a scientific study to attempt to control diabetic’s insulin levels through diet alone. Remarkably it succeeded where numerous others had failed.
It did this by the use of diet alone, and a diet that combined the things someone eats every day - not specially obtained or prepared even - in a relatively simple combination anyone could follow that resulted in their insulin lever being maintained in a - are you ready? - "ZONE" - not too high, not too low.
Now the important part for you and me who are NOT diabetic :
It was found that by regulating ANYONE'S insulin level in such a manner - produced NUMEROUS, WIDESPREAD, AND PROFOUND HEALTH BENEFITS.
A mere "side effect" of these numerous positive results was [ drum roll please ] weight loss ! In almost all cases gradual effective permanent [ if you stay on the Zone Eating Plan ] weight loss.
As you can see - The Zone "Diet" [ and I hate to use that word] is coming from exactly opposite where all but a very, very, very, very, very, few other "diets" that work long term do.
MANY diets when you understand what is going on are "cheap half assed rip offs" of the Zone concepts.
Susan Sommers - from what I understand - had someone "design" a diet and attached her name to it for compensation. She may have been sincere in attempting to help others but she is hardly a scientific researcher. Dr. Sears is a very respected member of the Boston academic, and, research and development community.
That is not to say her "diet" couldn't be relatively "sensible" and work at least for some - let's leave that out of it - it's water over the dam.
Many consider the Atkins Diet a "modified Zone Diet" - myself included. Compared to "the diet of the month" diets it's actually not bad. Atkins, others consider, was clever in taking the Zone and instead of CONSTANTLY regulating carbohydrates the same way from day 1 - TOTALLY ELIMINATING THEM - then GRADUALLY [ for good reason ] re-introducing them. This SIMPLIFIED the diet for the "newbie" and MORE IMPORTANTLY - led to even greater INITIAL WEIGHT LOSS.
Atkins also from day 1 aggressively and effectively marketed "the diet" as opposed to Dr.Sears who first approached the medical community - and found out they weren’t' interested.
Also remember that Atkins died of his own diet.
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I can't suggest strongly enough the value of obtaining at least a few of the Zone books if you haven't already - if you were to ask you would find that all the forum "responders" that graciously answer your questions most likely have all of them and re read many - many times. Much of it is very interesting as to your and my's biochemistry.
After reading into the scientific underpinnings of The Zone to any degree, like me, the meaning of "diet" as most of the diet industry" uses it will clearly be recognized as the FOUR LETTER WORD - that it is.
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you wrote :
However, my internist encourages going on stations to lower my LDL, and I refuse to do that. I avoid prescriptions meds if at all possible.
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Just what I mentioned about the "shift" in importance of "lipid levels" to "lipid ratios" in the view of health care professionals.
Just as I said originally - "at least some of your lipid levels would be a concern to at least some health care professionals in relation to the historic perception of their importance"
- to my cardiologist and Dr Kannel it wouldn't be a care at all.
You have to understand that research in this area is a HUGE and ONGOING ENDEAVOR - and is constantly marching forward.
The way it "filters down" to you and I IS NOT an "even" or even regulated thing. People like Kannel study something for YEARS and throughout that time publish various "papers", "abstracts", "studies", etc., etc., etc., for "peer review".
Slowly but surely others at lower levels pick up this "new" knowledge but at VERY IRREGULAR INTERVALS AND IMPLEMENT IT VERY UNEVENLY at a pace totally up to the individual.
You could very well have two different cardiologists in the same building with considerably different views on how to specifically treat something.
EVENTUALLY - as something comes to be "ACCEPTED" - consistency occurs in treatment.
This is a primary reason why I have educated myself as to how nutrition works on a scientific level and stay abreast of all the recent developments as much as possible through numerous medical journals and web sites that are available to anyone.
I don't take anyone's word for anything. I might have a strong opinion on something but unlike the overwhelming majority of others - I can support it.
My take on the elevated LDL in view of "current research" is to follow Kannel's thinking for now [ not attempt to treat it with drugs] and see what, if any effect, the Zone will have on it.
Now - hopefully not to confuse you but recently the cardiology world has pretty much agreed on a new found benefit of - statins - BESIDES lowering cholesterol. It has been found that the use of statins ALSO has an "overall" protective effect on arterial health ! This is NOT the same thing as what they were designed to do. They are beneficial to the health of the interior lining of arteries IN ADDITION to lowering cholesterol.
My cardiologist has me on two statins - used to be just one - the second one was added specifically for the "secondary benefits" of "artery protection". Some are better at it than others. Not all statins give the same amount of protection. I am on a very low dose of it because we are not looking for cholesterol reduction so a very low dose will accomplish this.
He introduced this to me several years ago - it is only now "catching up" with the general population of cardiologists.
Sleep well tonight knowing someone with a little scientific knowledge behind them - as in a "boatload" - thinks the LDL is no big deal, and as your cardiac health goes you may be "strong as an ox".
... from the "END"ZONE
E.Wally
ewally@verizon.net |
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Elias
Posts:56
Aspiring
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| 08/12/2008 7:36 PM |
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Sue,
I was reading through this thread (here we go again).
I am also interested in learning about what your definition of wellness is.
I have read the Anti-Inflammation Zone, and it starts out with a chapter on wellness. Anyway, I would like to know why you don't associate wellness with the absence of silent inflammation? |
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Sue
Posts:3613
Zoner
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| 08/12/2008 8:20 PM |
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Elias,
I made no comments in this thread on whether or not I associate wellness with the absence of silent inflammation.
I am making the point that a person cannot determine whether their AA/EPA is in the ideal range of 1.5 to 3 from their cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure readings. |
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sue
lost 100 lbs 13 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!
for more photos, scroll over this photo and click when the link appears
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