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Sue K 
Posts:10512
Zone Expert
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| 05/01/2009 6:37 AM |
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Hi Zoners!
My comment to Kathy, earlier in this thread, about Zone guidelines not considered in fit day calculations, was not about subtracting fiber, as was alluded to in the previous poster here. I was referring to other things, among them, but not limited to, are your personal needs for carb comp compositi(% of favorable vs. unfavorable carb), type of protein included in the meal (animal vs. soy protein; it makes a difference in insulin control), plant protein which is disregarded for Zone puropses, and one's personal response to various specific carbohydrates (not every lower density favorable carb produces a favorable Zone response in each and every individual).
Those who disagree with what is written in Zone books would be better off addressing their questions about that to Barry Sears, author of those books, than to me. I participate in these forums to share tips and knowledge that may help others, not to engage in debate.
Have a great day everyone!
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Christina
Posts:355
Zoner
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| 05/01/2009 7:40 AM |
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| Thank you Sue. I always appreciate the time you take out to comment and add your insight! <img src='http://www.zonediet.com/desktopmodules/ntforums/images/emoticons/smile.gif' height='20' width='20' border='0' title='Smile' align='absmiddle'> |
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Kathy
Posts:146
Zoner
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| 05/01/2009 8:17 AM |
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I appreciate everybodies input from my post. The way I look at it is....The block method is sure easy for me...and i could spend a LOT of time working it in fitday. Why do the work?? (my opinion) The book shows the blocks and as long as I'm loosing weight...thats all I need. I prefer the blocks because its very *precise*...I think I would find a way to *cheat* using my eye/hand method ;-) Perception is everything ;-)
Have a great day everybody ;-) |
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Cranberrycat
Posts:6019
Zone Expert
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| 05/01/2009 8:49 AM |
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Kathy, I am with you all the way on that. I would also find it difficult using the hand/eye or plate method. Various plate sizes/shapes, differences in how I am visualizing "filling" the plate, and then of course there are problems with using dense carbs vs. low density carbs. Not to mention what to do with fruit. It works in a pinch, say for instance going out to eat, or eating at someone else's house. But, to maintain consistency, blocks work best for me.
Little sue, I understand your frustration. I don't think it is your goal to criticize the book. Rather, it is to understand it. I wish Sue would just take the time to understand where you and I are coming from on this. I don't believe it is our intent to debate the issue. We just want to know!!!
Big Sue, really, if you don't know the answer, it is OK. Just say it. But, don't send us off in circles. We are all human, and if you don't know the answer, no one is going to look down upon you. Perhaps you are being too hard on yourself and misinterpreting the point of the discussion that little sue and I are trying to conduct. |
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Renee
Posts:11
Aspiring
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| 05/01/2009 10:21 AM |
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I think we all just need to stop over thinking the diet... if you make the zone SOOO Ridgid and become sooo obsessed with being perfect you'll never make it a lifestlye! As a lifetime dieter I'm finding the zone best cause I don't have to obess about tracking food... I know to eat 3 block break, 3 block lunch, 2 block snack, 3 block dinner, and a 2 block snack.... keep it simple folks! otherwise u'll become SOOOOOOO frustrated u'll never keep it up 
I'm planning to just track 1 day a week just to be sure my choices are as close as possible... Tuesday I was 30% fat, 34% protein, and 36% carbs... I thought that was pretty perfect |
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sue
Posts:263
Zoner
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| 05/01/2009 11:31 AM |
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| Renee - I am not trying to make this diet difficult or rigid. I know it may sound that way. This convo kind of got started due to another here on the forum. A big deal was being made about staying exactly with the blocks that the calculator says that you need. There was also a debate about the proper activity level. That was also a take off of another thread discussing elite athletes. CC and I are just trying to understand how the plate method can be correct, yet if you choose to use blocks then it has to be exact. The two don't jive in my mind. I'm just trying to understand it. I've read the books, but they don't quite clarify the issue. Sue has used the plate method so we were hoping she could enlighten us from her experience. |
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Cranberrycat
Posts:6019
Zone Expert
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| 05/01/2009 11:47 AM |
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Renee, I agree with sue. Not trying to make it sound difficult, or anything. There was discussion on another thread regarding some folks who were "allegedly" eating too many protein blocks. Just trying to figure out what the point is behind being rigid with the # blocks of protein, when one can't even be assured that they will get the right amount of protein, depending on various methods of measuring.
I had started another thread to try to address the protein issue, but apparently that thread died. So, since this discussion has been "sort of" hijacked, thought it would be a good opportunity to try to sort this out.
I am a veteran zoner, been doing it for years. But, I am always open to new thoughts and ideas on how to make it work. If we truly want to make the Zone work for us in our lives, then we need to be sure that we get the protein right, which is the cornerstone of Zone eating. |
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Sue K
Posts:10512
Zone Expert
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| 05/01/2009 2:23 PM |
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You're welcome Christina!
I'm happy to share Zone info. :-) |
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Renee
Posts:11
Aspiring
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| 05/01/2009 2:50 PM |
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hi girls
I totaly understand that you are trying to figure it all out... hope you get your answer |
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Cranberrycat
Posts:6019
Zone Expert
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| 05/01/2009 3:11 PM |
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Thanks! I hope that we can resolve the protein dilemma.
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sue
Posts:263
Zoner
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| 05/03/2009 2:28 PM |
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CC - I think we have maybe been asking the wrong question. I'm thinking maybe we need to rephrase it. We've used the word "protein" because from the books everything revolves around the amount of protein that you need. you figure blocks based on your protein requirements. So we have been asking how do we know if we are getting enough, to much or not enough protein.
I chatted with a gal from the Zone Chat on-line. She answered me the way that Sue always does, about feeling focused or unfocused etc. However that only addresses whether your are hormonally balanced. That doesn't address whether or not you are getting the proper amount of protein or maybe I should say blocks.
Sue has said if you are getting too many you will get fat or too little you will lose LBM. However, even though I am eating more blocks than what other might consider correct for me, I am not getting fat, so it must not be too much if we follow that course of thinking.
We have heard many people on here struggle with losing even when strictly following their number of blocks. So what I guess I'm looking for is other parameters.
When you do the plate method, your blocks are not exact as you are not measuring things. There needs to be other signs and maybe I'm just not understanding the books, but I'm not finding a good answer.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I apparently didn't ask Brittany from Chat the right way because she could not answer my question either. |
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Cranberrycat
Posts:6019
Zone Expert
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| 05/04/2009 8:58 AM |
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Well, here are my thoughts on it. Since we don't want to over-obsess in the zone, and since you are not gaining any bodyfat, then the increased number of blocks MUST be right for you.
I can see how Brittany would suggest the hormonal balance, though. Because, if we revolve around the protein, and we block everything else accordingly, too much carb will still cause problems. It isn't the protein/carb balance, but just the fact that there is too much carb at one time. Dropping the carb might control that, but then we still get fat from too much protein and fat.
So, I suppose that would be the way to do it... first choose the amount of protein that you think will work for you. If it isn't enough, then obviously one will lose LBM. If it is too much, one would have to eliminate all of the possibilities systematically, first by checking the meals' hormonal control, then checking for fat gain or LBM loss.
The thing that bothers me wth this that it would take so long to figure it all out. I don't think it is prudent to allow for the LBM to be lost. At the same time, why wait until the fat shows up?
Many of these changes are very moderate, and so they really are not all that apparent for several weeks or up to a month.
I think it would be better to have a more reliable way of measuring. Frankly, I don't really think most people would take the trouble to go through all of this. I recall a guy who had posted several months ago, and it was only AFTER his total weight loss that he realized that he had also lost a ton of LBM! |
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