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Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/01/2008 12:15 PM
Sue,
The quote function makes it difficult to follow messages, so I will not use it here.

Hunger after a meal: when we first began exploring this carb sensitivity years ago, I understood it exactly that way, that if I was hungry but mentally focused, that I would increase carbs. However, after I started to interact with you, you told me that I was carb sensitive because of my EARLY hunger. It is true, if I have a meal in which the carbs are unfavorable, that my hunger response is different. But, with a meal in which I have eaten favorable carbs, my early hunger has NEVER been unfocused, and I can't even imagine where you ever got that idea. The only "unfocused" symptom I have is that, to me, hunger is "distracting", and I really feel the urge to go and eat something. But, there are other times in which I can work right through it (not that I should). So, your statement in the previous post(s) is very confusing to me, because this is not at all what you have said in the past. And, given that there were different situations, different meals, I believe that I have had enough time over the years to disseminate the fact that I get hungry eating low-glycemic meals, satisfied with moderate glycemic meals, and out of the zone with high glycemic meals (this would be where the unfocused symptoms come to play). Activity level may have changed slightly from time to time, but the hunger control has not.

RE: lots of food: I truly don't understand where you are going with that, because your advice was to go with all veggies, low glycemic, etc. Throwing in something unfavorable will NOT help me to improve insulin control. ??? Therefore, volume control is difficult when one is trying to go very low glycemic. Please don't advise me to check the block list--I already know how to do that!!

RE: food diary: your advice seems to give me the message that you don't think I am doing a food diary, but I think in my previous posts, that I already told you that I was. And, you have seen previous diaries from the past. I include my meal ingredients, number of blocks, tracking "missing fat", and a spot for my 4 hour response. I also track my exercise on this form.





Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Sue K User is Offline
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02/01/2008 1:03 PM
[quote]Posted By Cranberrycat on 02/01/2008 12:15 PM

you told me that I was carb sensitive because of my EARLY hunger.

[/quote]

This is a misinterpretation.

Sounds like you have the tools and knowledge to figure this out. Hopefully you will be able to make progress given a little more trial and error.


sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

Zone Dinner Party (link)
Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/01/2008 3:56 PM
[quote]Posted By Sue on 02/01/2008 1:03 PM

[quote]Posted By Cranberrycat on 02/01/2008 12:15 PM

you told me that I was carb sensitive because of my EARLY hunger.

[/quote]

This is a misinterpretation.

Sounds like you have the tools and knowledge to figure this out. Hopefully you will be able to make progress given a little more trial and error.

[/quote]


Sue,
I don't understand what you mean by "misinterpretation". Can you clarify that?

I really feel much more confused by all of this.

I have the tools and the knowledge, that is true. I don't need anyone telling me to keep a diary, trial and error, etc. Those are givens. That is what I have been doing all along.

What I am looking for is some fresh ideas, some angles on how to approach it. The mere thought that you had misinterpreted my early hunger has me perplexed! Could that be the reason why I could not reach my goal? In previous emails, you always said that you felt that I was hovering around the edges of the Zone, but never really quite there. Well, perhaps if I was actually adjusting correctly, instead of side-stepping it with moderate carbs, maybe I would have completely entered the Zone!

I am really blown away by this.

Although, if I truly do need to increase the carb blocks when eating low density carbs, I still don't know how I will do that without using moderate or higher density carbs, and still successfully keep my insulin levels low. (of course, I guess I could use tomato sauce!-LOL)





Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Sue K User is Offline
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02/01/2008 4:41 PM
Cranberry, re:

"I don't understand what you mean by "misinterpretation". Can you clarify that? "

Yes. It means that I have not held the opinion that you being hungry earlier than 4 hours after a meal indicates which type of carb adjustment you require. You must be misunderstanding (misinterpreting) my past recommendations. I decide what type of adjustment is needed based on hunger and mental clarity, or lack of it, regardless of whether these symptoms begin at 3 hours after or 4 hours after the meal.

I respectfully decline to pursue that issue further in these forums because it involves your personal info from several years ago that was not presented here.

The excellent advice from the participants in this thread should been enough to get you back on track. The next step is up to you. I wish you much success!

sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

Zone Dinner Party (link)
Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/01/2008 6:23 PM
Sue, LOL, looks like you are pushing a few too many buttons there, with the double post.

Well, I think that we have discussed this issue in detail in the old forums, as well as in private email. So, it would be nice if you could clarify some of the points that I asked you about, since some things conflict with other things that you have said. However, I respect your decision to not comment on your misinterpretation of my symptoms.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/01/2008 6:57 PM
For all who are interested in my progress, my weekly stats show a slight decrease in weight, about 1/3 pound lost.

LBM +0.35
wt of fat -0.65

I gained LBM, while losing just over 1/2 pound of fat, which is why it only resulted in a small change on the scale.

I am anxious to see if this trend continues.

These results are after one week of increasing blocks to 12 per day.

The following week will be interesting, because I have modified my diet so that I am eating more carbs from veggies and trying to decrease the moderate density carbs (the ones that give me a sensation of meal satiety).

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Angie User is Offline
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Aspiring

02/01/2008 7:26 PM
Congrats! So the only thing you changed this week was your blocks? The types of carbs you typically eat are the same?

I'm happy for you!
cheril User is Offline
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Zoner

02/01/2008 7:37 PM
Hi Cran,
In moving to 12 blocks, are you still dropping 1C and adding fat? My thought would be to go to a solid 12 blocks, all equal, before moving up or down on the C and adding more F. If you are changing C density are you making too many changes to understand which is helping? I know you track everything but I wanted to make sure you can re-create your success. I know it's a bit slow- but this week is progress none the less. Gaining LBM and a weight drop is progress and not water/hormone flux.

I hope you get outdoors this weekend. Maybe a little xcountry skiiing?



Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/01/2008 8:10 PM
Angie,

As for the diet part, yes. All I changed was increasing from 11 to 12 blocks. I don't know if you were reading the rest of this discussion, but I have been hovering between 11 and 12 blocks, and so I thought that the extra block might help my body think it isn't starving to death!

Also, I have been keeping more active. I joined Curves about a month ago, and I had been doing workouts 3-4 days per week. This past week, I also did some XC skiing, on the days that I didn't have a workout. So, I only missed one day of working out.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/01/2008 8:24 PM
I definitely hear what you are saying! I don't want to get confused about what I changed and what made the difference. This past week, I think it helped to have the extra snack, but I think it was also the exercise that helped (if I am going to eat that extra snack,then I had better work for it!).

When I increased to 12 blocks, I did keep the same ratios.

Here are the changes for this week:
-stay at 12 blocks, except perhaps drop a block on days that I don't work out
-use more veggies, will not use oats for breakfast :( and probably only have one block of fruit per day (or yogurt). I will have to monitor hunger, and will try to increase the number of blocks if it is all veggies. However, it might be a challenge to eat all of that!
-forgot to mention on the other post, but I will also take a multivitamin per day for the vitamin D. No chance in getting enough sun!

Probably enough changes for one week, otherwise will lose track of what is working!

Oh, and I will be getting outside for sure! Temps will be a bit more mild, and my daughter's GS troop is going downhill skiing tomorrow. I will be going along, and hopefully I won't break anything! On Sunday, I will take her and her friend over to a XC ski trail.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


snickers User is Offline
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Aspiring

02/02/2008 8:16 AM
Well, off for a few days, and look what happens!

There are a lot of issues in this thread, I might choose to break them out for separate discussions. I see that you guys liked my idea! Thanks!

Sue, I think I will start a discussion on Zone Points, and I would welcome you to join in. I saw your statement earlier in this thread about zone points, but I get the feeling that you don't believe in them; although, you did like my idea of increasing blocks if using lower density carbs. Rather than continue discussing that here, I will open another thread on that.

Cheril, you are great! Great support, that is what we need here!

Jeffrey, I think you are also a valuable asset, and I hope I get a chance to chat with you more often. I think it was really neat that you opened up this thread for Crancat

And Crancat (hope you don't mind the abbrevieated version), I really admire you for hanging in there as long as you have. I think you have a good, level-headed approach to this. I would agree with Cheril, don't change too many things all at once, otherwise you won't know what the "it" factor was. We all want it to happen, sooner rather than later. But, you did make some nice progress over just one week, and so I think you are on the right track.
Jeffrey User is Offline
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Zoner

02/03/2008 12:08 AM
Cranberry, to summarize my thoughts on your case:

1. get enough sleep - 8 hours from head hitting pillow until alarm goes off MINIMUM. get hubby and kids to help with chores so you can do this.
2. keep working to de-stress (you are truly blessed to live in a time like now where we have all the benefits of the modern era - we just seem to forget so easily. don't take your blessings for granted.).
3. try eating 1.5 block meals twice as often - perhaps this will alleviate your hunger. perhaps your body doesn't respond well to "larger" meals. i will often eat 1/2 sized meals twice as much when i'm really zone focused. this does provide better insulin control.
4. doing aggressive weight training for about 30 minutes and then doing 30 minutes of elliptical cardio work is like a magic fat burning elixir for me. it might work for you, too.
5. everything else seems about right. stop worrying about it and work the plan for about a month with no worries on your part. i can tell someone is stressed when they start calculating fractional pounds of lean body mass gains and fat loss (in reality, that level of detail is impossible to track using approximation tools with a wide range for error).
6. let yourself enjoy feeling good and only weigh yourself every saturday after going to the restroom and before eating. 1 lb every week or two is excellent.
Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/03/2008 1:50 PM
Jeffrey,
Once again, you generally have some really good insights, level-headed thinking, keeping it simple and real.

1. Sleep--AMEN! If there was any one BIG thing that I need to fix, it would be that, and I have been working on it. It is really much better than it used to be.

2. Our modern-era blessings, I think you mean that everything is so fast and convenient, we don't have to work as hard to get what we need. Right? I agree. We don't count our blessings as much as we should, and we do take things for granted. As much as we have, we want MORE! I am pretty sure I see what you are saying there.

3. You know, the thought of 1.5 block meals twice as often never really occurred to me! I had broken it down to 2 block meals for a total of 6 equal meals throughout the day, but I found it difficult to be taking that break in the day to eat. I don't know if that would work, but I could try it. I definitely agree with the thought behind it, that eating more frequently will control insulin levels better. It is really more of a matter in putting that to practice. Since I already eat 3 block meals, dividing them in 1/2 would be simpler than trying to make 2 block meals. Finding the time at work to eat them will be the challenge.

4. I don't have access to the elliptical, and I will probably stick with the Curves workout for now. I am finding that I have to put more effort into the workout to get an adequate rise in pulse rate, and I feel that this is a good thing.

5. The fractional pounds...LOL! Again, thanks for making it REAL. That is pretty silly! I used to measure and weigh weekly and a group of us would share our progress, one would keep track of every little detail on a spreadsheet, and it was fine, but it was a bit meticulous. Prior to that, I used to weigh weekly, but measure monthly. I really think it is easier to see the forest through the trees by measuring monthly. I will keep that in mind.

6. Yep, I have one weigh-in day, and I ALWAYS wait until I have "eliminated"--LOL!

7. Miso soup, haven't tried it yet, can't find it in our stores, and looking at recipes, can't find the ingredients in our stores, either. We are rural. My next trip in to the bigger city, I will remember to bring a list of what I need.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/03/2008 1:54 PM
CPK,
Hope you don't mind that abbreviation, either! I don't mind crancat!

Anyway, thanks for the nice thoughts. I agree with you and Cheril, I certainly don't want to change too many things at once, unless they are permanent changes that I can stick with. Each change that I make is potentially a lifestyle change, and anyone who changes lifestyle should be prepared to do so; otherwise, if the change is temporary, things will just go back to the way they were.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


snickers User is Offline
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Aspiring
Aspiring

02/05/2008 10:47 PM
Crancat,
So, how are things going this week?
Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/06/2008 11:48 AM
Still very slow, despite trying to improve carb selections so that I am basically eating mostly all veggies. I still have varying hunger responses.

I was reading back at some old posts (from the old forum, when I first started posting 3 years ago). Basically, the posts that I read about my meals and my hunger responses, are all saying that I was feeling hunger but had mental clarity. Since I have basically been handling the hunger wrong all this time, assuming that "early hunger" was different and a sign of carb sensitivity, I am thinking that I will just start over on a straight 3-3-3 ratio. Get a few day's worth of meals in, based on this ratio, and then do some adjusting. In the beginning of my Zone days, I was following 3-3-3 and having success. When I ran into hunger (and felt mentally clear), I had started out by adding more carb. It wasn't until after I met Sue that I started to cut carb and add fat. I know that it was 3+ years ago, and perhaps what worked then won't work now, but I think that it is wise to just start at the baseline again.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Jeffrey User is Offline
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Zoner

02/06/2008 11:57 PM
Cranberry, i concur. start from ground zero and dial it in again.

happy zoning.
Cranberrycat User is Offline
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02/07/2008 9:55 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence on that decision! In my "beginning" days in the Zone, it was obvious to me that I should have adjusted differently, but somehow I got sidetracked on the "early hunger", in that I was thinking that was more of a carb sensitivity rather than just a symptom of inadequate intake of carbs.


Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


cheril User is Offline
Posts:181
Zoner
Zoner

02/07/2008 6:22 PM
Hi CranberryCat,
With all your analysis, I'm sure you'll break the plateau soon!! Keep us posted.
cheril User is Offline
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Zoner
Zoner

02/11/2008 9:00 PM
Hi CranCat,
How are you doing with your straight 3 block meals? I figure you may be past the four day point so I thought I'd to see if you feel different? I know it takes a while for the scale to catch up but sometimes I get the feeling that I really am burning fat. My hope is that you've turned into the fat burning machine of the cold weather land...then you can melt away all the snow;-).
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Crab 0.060 400
Scallops 0.050 290
Shrimp ND* 290
Catfish 0.050 270
Clams ND* 250
Cod 0.095 210
Canned Tuna (light) 0.120 200
* ND: Mercury concentration below detection limit.

 

OmegaRx®

Zone Labs’ leading product. OmegaRx delivers all of the benefits of Zone Labs’ ultra-refined omega-3 concentrates.

Advantages

  • Delivers clinically proven health benefits from the omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA*
  • Promotes a healthy heart, healthy brain, healthy immune system, healthy circulatory system, healthy joints, healthy moods, healthy triglyceride levels and a healthy pregnancy*
  • Combats silent inflammation

 

*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

 

 

 

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