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Subject: ALTERNATIVE FAT BURNING

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alex User is Offline
Posts:346
Zoner
Zoner

05/22/2008 10:03 AM
im completely content w the zone and everything, but im always intersted in diff nutrition theories and opinions and this is one i was wondering about. It basically goes like this...
When people try to lose weight the 1st priority is usually eating less calories, but this might be a different way (a smarter way), bc when people reduce cal intake they are actually hurting dis arming their best weapon vs fat burning: their metabolism. What people should do is to try to put on as much muscle as possible, and do everything they can to do this-and then just eat enough to maintain their msucle mass. This way your metabolism is working for you, vs against you. and by everything they can i mean taking all sorts of supplements and creatine and doing carb loading etc... all in hopes to gain the most muscle possible, which will inturn burn the most fat
I know its not a zone favorable idea but what you think?
Matt User is Offline
Posts:306
Zoner
Zoner

05/22/2008 12:30 PM
I think you are a crazy young kid with lots of ideas.

This is not a bad thing. Thinking outside the box and having crazy ideas is the only way to bring about change. On the other hand you could be just spinning your wheels and following the Zone is the best overall weigh to get healthy.

Primitive CrossFit
Where Fitness & Nutrition Evolve
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Matt User is Offline
Posts:306
Zoner
Zoner

05/22/2008 12:53 PM
On another note. I don't think most people are disciplined enough to go to a muscle building intake regimen. Then will they know when to go to a Zone intake.

My completely unbiased opinion (not really) is that learning how to eat is the most important factor. Remember I looked at the Zone from day one as a lifestyle change. Once you master the eating you can then add in the additional exercise and supplements.

Now as for just losing weight your theory might have validity but will people stay disciplined to keep at it after they but on the muscle mass to change over I doubt it. How often do you read on here about the yo-yo dieting people have done. Or the ones that zoned 5-10 years ago but then went off the zone and gained back all the weight and then some. Then you have the scale factor. You have to keep these people off the scale while they are building muscle. First time they get on the scale after doing all that exercise and they see they have either gained weight or only lost a few pounds the will be so frustrated they quit doing the right things.

I love playing devil's advocate if you haven't noticed.

In a controlled environment you may have just exposed the best way to lose weight ever.
I would love to see some different diet variations and alternative training regimens used on a show like biggest loser. Instead of everyone learning the same thing and the only difference is who has the most to lose or who is the hungriest no pun intended.

Primitive CrossFit
Where Fitness & Nutrition Evolve
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alex User is Offline
Posts:346
Zoner
Zoner

05/23/2008 9:49 AM
yeah, quick thing about the shows on TV- i was watching the Workout and her nutrition philiosophy is all messed up and outdated she said when looking at nutiritonal labels you should first look at calories and then look at sugar. This is wrong for SOO many reasons.
As far as the weight regimen goes- i love to lift weights but dont like cardio so much. I could see myself doing an only weight lifting regimen, but i know what your saying- not much people are willing to put in the effort that would be needed. But if you REALLY wanted to, and was motivated enough, and put into the right mindset- i think it would be a more efficient way to lose weight....however....
Im not sure on just how much muscle burns more calroies, or in other words, would putting on alot of muscle really boost your metabolism up to the point where you could pretty much eat the foods you want to. I read in a book a while ago, that for each pound of LBM it takes 11 cal for men and 9 cal for females to maintain that. So lets say you went from a LBM of 150pds (which would be 1650 resting caloric rate) and put on 25 pounds of muscle, which is a considerable amount. That would mean you new resting caloric rate would only be an extra 300-400 cal. Which doesnt seem like a signifigant amount. However im not too sure how accurate this info was-maybe muscles take more calories per pound then the rest of your body or something like that, im not sure.
But yeah, im completely content w the results ive been getting on the zone, and am not going to change anything as of yet. I just added a block, so im at 18 a day now and ive been at pretty steady weight.
Sue K User is Offline
Posts:8667
Zone Expert
Zone Expert

05/23/2008 11:20 AM
alex,

Those metabolic equations you read are most likely based on a person buring carbs for ATP. You really can't apply them to a perosn who's buring fat to make ATP.




Matt,

I've watched the Biggest Loser and I'd love to see what type of diet each individual is put on. I always wonder about that. They edit it to give the impression it's mostly all about calorie counting, but I wonder how much of that is done in regard to fitting in the sponsor's products (those 100 calorie snack packs, the gum, etc). Too bad they don't really show us the whole picture about how those guys sustain those huge losses week after week. I mean, did you see Ali, this seasons winner? She was down into the low 140's and still able to lose something like 8 or 9 pounds in a week's time. I've got no clue how they managed to get that to happen!

The thing I'd like to most see change about that show is their basis for comparing weight loss success among the contestants. They use % of total weight lost. I'd think they should use % of body fat lost. After all, that's the point of the whole weight loss thing! I've never thought that using % of total weight loss is fair. Those who gain the most muscle are off-setting stored fat losses by more than those who gain less muscle. That's unfair to those who succeed in gaining the most muscle (especially because the show uses hundredths of a percentile for comparison), because it reduces their % of loss, when in fact they may actually lost a higher % of body fat than the other contestents. Bottom line, it results in the appearance that they haven't lost as much weight when % of total weight loss is used as the comparison. They must have their reasons for basing it on % of total weight lost rather than % of body fat lost. I'd love to know what they are. The notion of actual body fat % lost being important, only seems to receive a passing mention, more in the form of consolation to those who haven't lost as much weight, on the show when the contestants all return to the hospital for checkups after losing most of their weight.

Calculating actual body fat%'s each week could become tedious and time consuming compared to the current weigh-in used, where the contestants step up and stand on a scale. But then, maybe not. Picture this. Each week instead of a stepping up to the scale, instead every contestant gets dunked, one at a time, into one of those tubs of water that measures their actual body fat%!

sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

Zone Dinner Party (link)
alex User is Offline
Posts:346
Zoner
Zoner

05/23/2008 3:47 PM
yeah, im not saying im going to switch to eat, but i do want to gradually increase my metoblism to the point wher i can eat what i want, and not worry about putting on fat
Cranberrycat User is Offline
Posts:5313
Zone Expert
Zone Expert

05/23/2008 6:41 PM
[quote]Posted By alex on 05/22/2008 10:03 AM

im completely content w the zone and everything, but im always intersted in diff nutrition theories and opinions and this is one i was wondering about. It basically goes like this...
When people try to lose weight the 1st priority is usually eating less calories, but this might be a different way (a smarter way), bc when people reduce cal intake they are actually hurting dis arming their best weapon vs fat burning: their metabolism. What people should do is to try to put on as much muscle as possible, and do everything they can to do this-and then just eat enough to maintain their msucle mass. This way your metabolism is working for you, vs against you. and by everything they can i mean taking all sorts of supplements and creatine and doing carb loading etc... all in hopes to gain the most muscle possible, which will inturn burn the most fat
I know its not a zone favorable idea but what you think?[/quote]

Alex, I am jumping in a bit late to this discussion, but the problem that I have with what you are suggesting is that you are suggesting all sorts of supplements.

I am not one to believe that these supplements are beneficial. Rather, I am of the belief that we should be able to get everything that we need from our food. Of course, we humams have hurt our food supply so that some of it is no longer pure (like our fish), and so that makes it necessary for the fish oil. But other than that, I think that we should be able to get the rest of our nutrients from the foods that we eat.

Just my 2cents!

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Bridget User is Offline
Posts:52
Aspiring
Aspiring

05/23/2008 11:28 PM
Just a comment about supplements (from what I experienced and understand): Our soil has been depleted of the vital elements that feeds the food grown in it through the years of farming the land. It is beneficial to take a mult-vitamin that supplies the vitamins and minerals that is missing from our food. Before I began taking a daily multivitamin with my daily exercise plan, I would get broncitius and strep throat and sinus infections each winter and need about 5-7 days total in sick days from work. I added a multi-vitamin a few years ago to my exercise (and before I began the Zone) and I do not get sick, and I do not take sick days from work (4-plus years of perfect attendance). The only thing I changed was taking a vitamin. When there is a bug going around and there are lots of sick people at work or calling off sick, I MAY get a couple days of very mild symptoms and then they go away. It is so mild I barely notice it. So, for me personally, I believe in the benefits of supplements.
alex User is Offline
Posts:346
Zoner
Zoner

05/24/2008 8:16 AM
yeah but it think it would only help you as far as muscle growth, you may be a little less in the zone, however the added muscle will make up for it in the long run
Colin User is Offline
Posts:162
Zoner
Zoner

05/25/2008 12:33 PM
> and by everything they can i mean taking all sorts of supplements and creatine and doing carb loading etc..

In the same way that the Zone Diet bucks the established "norm" for dietary advice, there are exercise regimes out that are to mainstream exercise, what the zone is to diet. You don't need supplements, creatine or (definitely not!) carb loading to build LBM. 6 months of Crossfit.com and I guarantee you'll be Stronger, Fitter and Faster than you ever have been in your life. Oh and with a higher LBM too.

Down from 30% Body Fat to 18% in 6 months. UPDATE: Now 13% Body fat.
Read how on my: Zone Diet and Crossfit Blog
alex User is Offline
Posts:346
Zoner
Zoner

05/25/2008 12:48 PM
my trainer told me that any elevated heart rate from resistance training doesnt burn fat-which is why im opposed to cross fit, even though i respsect those who do do it bc is pretty tough
Kim User is Offline
Posts:1
Newbie
Newbie

05/25/2008 4:36 PM
(sorry, this is supposed to go under Sue's comment, but I'm new, and I obviously didn't get it there...sorry!) Sue, wow, you're right on the money. The long-term effects of anything we do in life (lose weight, build fitness, save energy, etc.) are "short-term pain for long-term gain", a concept that some of the more ADD crowd cannot attain. I totally agree that the only way to measure success is by measuring actual fat lost. I watched some sort of weird show a while back where 2 guys were trying to lose the most weight in I think was a month. It got down to the point where they were shaving body hair, purging, dehydrating themselves, doing colonics, etc. in order to win. So many factor affect weight loss that we have to remember to be realistic. Keep your comments coming...you make a lot of sense!
Sue K User is Offline
Posts:8667
Zone Expert
Zone Expert

05/25/2008 5:23 PM
Thanks Kim!

sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

Zone Dinner Party (link)
Sue K User is Offline
Posts:8667
Zone Expert
Zone Expert

05/25/2008 5:26 PM
[quote]Posted By alex on 05/23/2008 3:47 PM

yeah, im not saying im going to switch to eat, but i do want to gradually increase my metoblism to the point wher i can eat what i want, and not worry about putting on fat[/quote]

alex, if you've neven been like the before, I doubt it's going to happen. We can change our genes. Unfortunately we're stuck with the ones we were born with!


sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

Zone Dinner Party (link)
alex User is Offline
Posts:346
Zoner
Zoner

05/25/2008 9:37 PM
yeah, but if i put on enough muscle, my metabolsim is going to go higher
Cranberrycat User is Offline
Posts:5313
Zone Expert
Zone Expert

05/26/2008 11:55 AM
Another comment about supplements...

I agree with Bridget (I think it was Bridget) about how the soil is depleted. However, I don't think that it is necessarily true that we can't get what we need from our food. I don't really take any supplements, except for the fish oil (and I should also mention that I had begun vitamin D because I live in a northern climate). The Zone is a very vitamin-rich diet, and I feel that if we are smart about what we are purchasing (and when), that we can still get good produce with adequate vitamin content.

Sears also says that frozen veggies are often higher in vitamin content than fresh. Frozen veggies are frozen soon after harvest, and there is less chance that the vitamins can oxidize. However, veggies in the produce section of the market may have oxidized some of the vitamin content already.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


alex User is Offline
Posts:346
Zoner
Zoner

05/26/2008 5:19 PM
i added it up and it is pretty much impossible to get all the recomended daily vitamins and minerals from what you eat, even if it is mostly fruits and veggies. There are some things, such as Vit C, that are real easy to get enough of but there are others where you would have to eat some specific thing at every meal, every day, to get the adequate amount. So a daily supplement is very neccessary
ivan User is Offline
Posts:1
Newbie
Newbie

06/07/2008 2:39 AM
I am thinking to start using some pills for training and faster fat losing, some of tried anything from these - www.medicamol.com
Cranberrycat User is Offline
Posts:5313
Zone Expert
Zone Expert

06/12/2008 8:19 PM
Alex,
Sorry, but I have been busy with things, and just getting back to this thread. I wonder if you can address a question for me...

If we are unable to get our daily nutritional requirements from the foods we eat, then how did we exist as human beings before supplements came along?

I can understand supplementing fish oil when our fish supply is too dangerous to consume the large amounts of fish necessary to get omega 3.

But, outside of that, I just don't see the need for vitamin supplementation.

I laugh at the TV commercial for "Total" cereal. It basically bashes Kashi Go Lean because a bowl of Total contains all of the vitamins necessary for the day, whereas one would have to consume ## bowls of Kashi to get the RDA of vitamins. Well, my reply on that? Why would I need to stuff in all of my RDA into one meal, when I can get my RDA throughout the day? And, I feel the same way about vitamins.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


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Dr. Barry Sears, PhD.Dr. Barry Sears is a leading authority on the dietary control of hormonal response. A former research scientist at the Boston University School of Medicine and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Sears has dedicated his research efforts over the past 30 years to the study of lipids. He holds 13 U.S. Patents in the areas of intravenous drug delivery systems and hormonal regulation for the treatment of cardiovascular disease.

A turning point in his research occurred in 1982. That year, the Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded for discoveries of the role that specialized hormones, known as eicosanoids, play in the development of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, auto-immune diseases, and cancer. Since eicosanoids are only generated from dietary fat, Dr. Sears reasoned that one could apply intravenous drug delivery principles to nutrition in order to control these exceptionally powerful hormonal responses with laser-like precision. In essence, his approach treats food as if it were a drug.

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Dr. Sears continues his ongoing research as President of Zone Labs, a biotechnology company in Danvers, MA as well as the President of the non-profit Inflammation Research Foundation in Marblehead, MA. In addition to continuing research on the hormonal effects of food, Dr. Sears has expanded his research in developing innovative dietary approaches to treating cancer and neurological conditions, as well as his on-going work in treating cardiovascular diease and type 2 diabetes.

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Prior to following the Zone Diet, my body fat was around 15% and my weight around 153 pounds. No matter what I did, my weight and body fat did not change much. I regularly cycled 20-30 hours per week logging well over 400 miles. That had little impact on body fat or weight. Diet also seemed to have little impact on body fat or weight. Within a couple of months of following the zone diet, my weight dropped rather quickly to 142 pounds and body fat to about 8%. I still regularly cycle up to 20 hours per week (during the summer). I have also started strength training. I eat about 16 blocks per day. I take 3.6 grams of fish oil per day, along with Vitamin E, Alpha Lipoic Acid, CoQ10, and B & C vitamins. I also take GLA, which in my opinion, has significantly reduced fatigue and improved recovery times after exercise.

– Jeremy S.

All polyphenols have antioxidant properties than can be measured by their Oxygen Radical Absorption Capacity (ORAC), but not all polyphenols have anti-inflammatory properties. The polyphenols in Dr. Sears’ Zone Polyphenol Plus have been carefully chosen to have both.

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Certified Purity and Proven Potency

Zone Labs’ Ultra Refined Omega-3 Concentrates are three times fresher and contain less than 1/10th the mercury than what is allowed by the Norwegian Medicinal Standard and European Pharmacopoeia Standard

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Standard IFOS Standard for a 5-Star Ranking Council for Responsible Nutrition European Pharmacopeia Norwegian Medicinal Standards
Peroxide < 3.75 meg/kg 5 meg/kg 10 meg/kg 10 meg/kg
Totox Levels < 20 meg/kg 26 meg/kg NA NA
Lead < 10 ppb 10 ppb 100 ppb 100 ppb
Mercury < 10 ppb 10 ppb 100 ppb 100 ppb
Dioxans and Furans < 1 ppt 2 ppt 2 ppt 2 ppt
PCBs < 45 ppb 90 ppb NA NA

 

 

 

 

 

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Zone Labs products show no detectable lead or mercury when tested down to 10ppb, which is 10 times below the Norwegian Medicinal Standard and European Pharmacopoeia Standard limits.

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A serving of canned tuna has 12 times less omega-3’s than
Zone Labs Ultra-Refined Omega-3 Concentrates

Commonly consumed fish and shellfish in the United States

Mercury Source: Food and Drug Administration, FDA 1900-2004, “National Marine Fisheries Service Survey of Trace Elements in the Fishery Resource". Omega-3 Level Source: American Heart Association Website.

  Mercury level
in parts per million (ppm)
Omega-3 fatty acids
(milligrams per 3-oz. serving)
Zone Omega-3 Products < 0.01 2400 (standard 4 capsule serving
Salmon (fresh, frozen) 0.014 1200
Flounder or sole 0.050 480
Pollock 0.041 450
Crab 0.060 400
Scallops 0.050 290
Shrimp ND* 290
Catfish 0.050 270
Clams ND* 250
Cod 0.095 210
Canned Tuna (light) 0.120 200
* ND: Mercury concentration below detection limit.

 

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Advantages

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*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

 

 

 

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