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Subject: How often/duration do you need AA/EPA tests?

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Sue K User is Online
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08/05/2008 6:49 AM
Hi snickers!

I'm not used to your new name yet. I still keep thinking of you as cabbage patch kid! :)

[quote]Posted By snickers on 08/04/2008 6:22 PM

But, Sue, isn't it true that this very expensive test is not really a necessary part of being in the Zone?

E.W. posted some really good information, which I seem to remember reading in the Zone books, regarding lipids and fasting insulin. In addition, there is the Eicosanoid Status Report which is found in the OmegaRx Zone.

If there was NO OTHER way to determine a person's inflammation level, then I highly doubt that Dr. Sears would suggest these alternatives.

[/quote]


Regarding your initial qn in this quoted material, no that is not true.


Refer to pages 35-39 of the "Anti-Inflammaton Zone" his most recent book that was released in 2005. To quote Barry Sears on page 35 of the book, "I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the SIP". (SIP, short for Silent Inflammation Profile, is the AA/EPA blood test.)


To quote Barry on page 36 of the same book where he speaks about the science supporting the SIP test " Such published material, coupled with the thousands of SIP tests I have done in the last 3 years, is why I consider the SIP to be the most powerful blood test you can take. I firmly believe that it predicts your likelihood of developing cancer, Alzheimer's, and heart disease decades before these diseases manifest themselves."


Refer to the info in Chapter 4 of the book I mentioned earlier in this post. You'll read how the fasting insulin test alone is not a substitute for the SIP. Barry Sears writes there that both the SIP and the fasting insulin results should be in certain ranges for a person to be considered well. Cholesterol and triglyceride testing results can be used as a rough marker to estimate the one's insulin is higher or lower (specifically TRIG/HDL), but they are also not going to show one's actual AA or EPA blood levels.





sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

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Cranberrycat User is Offline
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08/05/2008 9:50 AM
I, too, believe that the AA/EPA test is not really necessary (yes, even after all of that about establishing baseline, etc.). There are going to be some exceptions to this, but for the majority, probably not.

I think that Sue is talking about 2 different things. One, we are talking about being in the Zone, and two, we are talking about predicting chronic disease by identifying one's level of inflammation.

Since I don't have my OmegaRx Zone book with me, I can't really quote a page or an excerpt. However, I believe that he goes on to explain that the other tools can be used in the absences of the AA/EPA.

If you are using the AA/EPA to predict your risk of silent inflammation, then the fasting insulin and the TG/HDL ratio can be used together to make some pretty accurate assumptions. While it IS possible that there could be high levels of inflammation when these levels are low, that possibility is highly unlikely. Another tool that can be used to make an assumption is the waist-to-hip ratio. Those who carry more weight around the middle are at higher risk of silent inflammation, and are higher risk for heart disease and diabetes.

If you are using the AA/EPA to dose fish oil, then I think that it can also be accomplished without the expensive test. Just use the Eicosanoid Status Report. It is found in the OmegaRx Zone, and you would adjust your dose based on how the questions are answered. And, it is FREE!

I was reading on this last night, and I did note that there was a suggestion by Sears that those who take LARGE doses of fish oil might benefit more from the AA/EPA test. I believe he defined "large" as 3 grams per day. But, I will be sure to check on my facts when I get my hands on the book.

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Sue K User is Online
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08/05/2008 12:38 PM
To Everyone,

[quote]Posted By Cranberrycat on 08/05/2008 9:50 AM


I think that Sue is talking about 2 different things. One, we are talking about being in the Zone, and two, we are talking about predicting chronic disease by identifying one's level of inflammation.

[/quote]

This quote represents a gross misinterpretation of my postings in this thread. The Zone is an anti-inflammatory lifestyle. Anti-inflammation is at the heart of every aspect of the Zone, not a separate issue.

I'd love to see this thread get back on topic now (please refer to Michael's questions in the first post of this thread).

sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

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E.Wally User is Offline
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08/05/2008 1:31 PM
Michael,

Did you ever think you would be creating a "tempest in a teapot" by asking such an innocent question?

I'm going to comment on a recent post by Cranberry Cat :


If you are using the AA/EPA to predict your risk of silent inflammation, then the fasting insulin and the TG/HDL ratio can be used together to make some pretty accurate assumptions. While it IS possible that there could be high levels of inflammation when these levels are low, that possibility is highly unlikely.

[end of quote ]

*************

Michael - in attempting to be thorough, provide "facts" versus "opinion”, and substantiate what could be construed as opinion with documentation by a variety of respected sources - including our very own Dr.Sears - perhaps some KEY ELEMENS were "lost" against this broad expansive background.

Let me attempt to focus on, out of all of the data and excerpts [previously provided ], those things only which are important to the discussion at hand :


[ an "excerpt from the excerpt above :]

... While it IS possible that there could be high levels of inflammation when these levels are low, that possibility is highly unlikely....


Let's focus on that and illuminate just how "unlikely" this is :


As directly as we can, let's "connect the dots" regarding "inflammation"- shall we ?



--------[from the National Institute of Health website:]

-------- The Cholesterol - Atherosclerosis Connection



A large body of evidence supports a direct relationship between LDL cholesterol and the rate of CHD. This includes within-population studies (i.e., Framingham and MRFIT) and between-population studies (i.e., Seven Countries).


[ EMPHASIS : Atherosclerosis is a disease affecting arterial blood vessels. It is a chronic inflammatory response in the walls of arteries. { Wikipedia}

EMPHASIS :A large body of evidence supports ...

This statement is not just "thrown around". It is by an organization that has accumulated data that literally fills one of those MAMMOTH federal buildings in Washington DC.


************

Now focusing on key elements of the study by Kannel in previous posts :

... Regarding the lipid ratio, it is apparent from Framingham Study data ...


... blood lipids, ... fundamental to atherogenesis ...



William B. Kannel, MD, MPH
Professor of Medicine and Public Health
Boston University School of Medicine
Boston

************** end of quote from abstract by Kannel


[EMPHASIS : "... Framingham Study data ..." The Framingham Study and related offshoots of it is perhaps THE MOST REPECTED, LONG STANDING, MOST REFERENCED, MOST QUOTED, MOST SOURCED, Study in the world.

Google it and be prepared to spend a couple of days "skimming" the breadth of its influence.

It was initiated in the 1940's - THAT'S NOT A TYPO : 1940's - and in its NUMEROUS permutations has continued vibrantly to this day - and has been continually expanded.

It is being conducted in Framingham Mass - right under the collective noses of the greater Boston collegiate research community - how convenient to Dr.Sears and his colleagues !}


____________________


{ EMPHASIS : "... blood lipids, ... fundamental to atherogenesis ..."


******

Definition of Atherogenesis

Atherogenesis: The process of forming atheromas, plaques in the inner lining (the intima) of arteries.



******


Inflammatory angiogenesis in atherogenesis

Ribatti D, Levi-Schaffer F, Kovanen PT.

Department of Human Anatomy and Histology, University of Bari Medical School, Bari, Italy.

The adventitia and the outer layers of media of an atherosclerosis-prone arterial wall are vascularized by vasa vasorum. Upon growth of an atherosclerotic lesion in the intima, neovascular sprouts originating from the adventitial vasa vasorum enter the lesion, the local proangiogenic micromilieu in the lesion being created by intramural hypoxia, by increased intramural oxidant stress, and by inflammatory cell infiltration

[ end of excerpt ]

{ EMPHASIS : "... by inflammatory cell infiltration ..." in other words this is how "atherogenesis" is connected with INFLAMMATION.}



**************---------***************---------**********

MICHAEL - are you still there ? Hope I haven't lost you !

Hang in there, we're about to bring this thing to fruition.

If you want to read a lot more specifically about the

The Cholesterol - Atherosclerosis Connection

go to :

http://www.md-phc.com/education/cholest.html#cholesterol

**********--------********--------*****---------*******

MICHAEL :

HERE IT IS.

GUIDANCE FROM THE NATIONAL HEALTH INSTITUTE.

It would seem to me to be the most rational and cogent recommendation one could find as to having or not having a "cholesterol screening" test :



*** National Cholesterol Education Program Guidelines

All adults 20 years of age and older should have their total cholesterol as well as HDL-cholesterol measured every five years.


____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________

*** The National Cholesterol Education Program - is administered by the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute.


--- you can, if you like, investigate this further at the NCEP portion of the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute web site :

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/about/ncep/index.htm

... this is part of the Dept of Health and Human Services ... which falls under the National Health Institute.


... from the "END" Zone

E.Wally

ewally@verizon.net
Cranberrycat User is Offline
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08/05/2008 1:45 PM
Thanks, E. Wally, for the added information, and how it relates to Michaels' question.

Michael, if you are still out there, I bet you are "flabbergasted"! I hope you have the courage to post again! LOL! We'll be easy on you! :)

Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Elias User is Offline
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08/05/2008 7:47 PM
Interesting thread!

Hope you all don't mind me barging in on this discussion. As a newbie to this forum, I like to read hot topics to get a feel for the tone of the forum, who the "experts" are, and what they are saying/how they are saying it.

Here is my take on the AA/EPA. First, if you really want results that tell you something, I think that getting a baseline before starting is a great idea. Then, re-test in a month after eating solidly in the Zone and taking the standard dose of fish oil. I think that would prove whether or not you've made any progress. Yes, it may be expensive, but anyone who would consider doing this test is planning on shelling out lots of money to do it, anyway; so, why not do it in a way that makes sense?

I have never had this test, but if I were in a position to do so, I would definitely do it that way (thanks C-cat for the suggestion).

On the other hand, is this really a necessary test?

I choose to believe that it is not. As the previous ones posted in this forum, there are other tools that Dr. Sears has identified to "get us close". On page 95 of THE OMEGARX ZONE, he states that the AA/EPA test is for "laser-like pinpointing of your eicosanoid levels. But, to get a rough estimate of your eicosanoid levels, then use the Eicosanoid Status Report found on page 98.

Elias User is Offline
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Aspiring
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08/07/2008 9:51 PM
Geez, didn't mean to kill the discussion!

Sue, any comments here? I had thought perhaps you would!
Sue K User is Online
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08/08/2008 7:31 AM
[quote]Posted By Elias on 08/07/2008 9:51 PM



Sue, any comments here? I had thought perhaps you would![/quote]


Hi Elias!

There's not much more I can say about my thoughts on how often to do the SIP (AA/EPA) test, and the importance of the test. Please refer to my previous posts in this thread.

My suggestion to everyone reading this thread would be to read the "The Anti-Inflammation Zone" to gain the best understanding of the topic.

Cheers!


sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

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Elias User is Offline
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Aspiring
Aspiring

08/16/2008 9:40 AM
Sue, I have added some comments to a new thread that was started. I hope you can comment!
Teresa User is Offline
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Aspiring
Aspiring

08/25/2008 8:09 PM
"Although the SIP remains the gold standard of quantifying the levels of silent inflammation, measuring your degree of insulin resistance is the next best biomaker. "

Page 38, The anti inflammation zone.



Texas T.
Elias User is Offline
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Aspiring
Aspiring

08/26/2008 10:40 PM
AMEN to that!

Obviously this would not even be a discussion if the AA/EPA (or SIP) was more widely available and less costly, more of a mainstream blood test.

But, since it is not, most people really won't be able to do this test, due to financial constraints, location, accessibility.

The fasting insulin and the TG/HDL are very helpful, and you can use them in conjunction with the eicosanoid status report (which doesn't cost anything except the time it takes to answer the questions).
Sue K User is Online
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08/27/2008 10:32 AM
Hi Texas T, Elias and Everyone!

When that info about the degree of insulin resistance being a next best biomarker is read in context you'll see that Dr. Sears states both the SIP and the fasting insulin tests "should fall" within the ideal ranges for a person to be considered well (refer to the top of page 39, "The Anti-Inflammation Zone"). That's both tests together, not one test or the other. One does not replace the other, nor does either test give the same info as the other.

For those who may be considering having the SIP test, it is accessible to everyone in the US. The price charged by Nutrasource Diagnostics, Inc. (the testing facility recommended on page 38 of "The Anti-Inflammation Zone") for its comprehensive SIP testing is much less than the price mentioned eariler in this thread.

sue

Lost 100 lbs 14 yrs ago, off BP meds, thanks to the Zone diet and Zone fish oil!


To view my before/after pics and meal photos scroll over this picture and click when the link appears.

Zone Dinner Party (link)
Cranberrycat User is Offline
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08/29/2008 12:53 AM
Sue,

What is your answer for those who choose not to do the SIP test because of expense or because of it being unaccessible?

Just wondering, because I bet that the response to this thread and the other thread that you started and that I restarted would be much larger, if others really felt that this was important enough to spend the money on.


Cranberrycat

We don't own the earth; we borrow it from our children.


Cheryl User is Offline
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10/18/2009 1:14 PM
Where can you get the aa/epa test?
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Dr. Barry Sears, PhD.Dr. Barry Sears is a leading authority on the dietary control of hormonal response. A former research scientist at the Boston University School of Medicine and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Sears has dedicated his research efforts over the past 30 years to the study of lipids. He holds 13 U.S. Patents in the areas of intravenous drug delivery systems and hormonal regulation for the treatment of cardiovascular disease.

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